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Author Topic: Skirmishing or running away  (Read 901 times)

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2019, 12:55:41 PM »
That would appear to be the long and the short of it.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2019, 01:23:01 PM »
It is what is says.
As SuGs play less of role in this game I didn't feel the complexity of the rest mattered.
So just do what it says and invent nothing new and its as intended.

Si
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badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2019, 07:44:11 PM »
Quote
Troops are never obliged to shoot 9.6A.4 (p91).
As long as you don't shoot in the Impact Phase you may shoot in the Shooting Phase.

Richard

But if the unit runs away or make an SK move it is considered having shot even if it did not shoot and so would not shoot latter ! that was clearly stated on the old forum somewhere . Now if that has changed, please tell us as it will change many things .

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2019, 08:15:32 PM »
Are you perhaps confusing this specific option in the claries with being a general rule?

Quote
SKIRMISHING WHEN CHARGED FROM FLANK/REAR

Is allowed to get a free turn if you are prepared to take the risk, but troops so doing are considered to have done a shooting action and cannot shoot in the shooting phase (they just had no real target).
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2019, 08:24:37 PM »
Whatever that clary actually means - I'm a bit unsure to be honest  :o
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2019, 10:22:01 AM »
I think Simon might clarify it . Either you may shoot or not is you went SK or Run away and did not shoot for a reason or another.

IMO : they fled or "retreated" and so cannot shoot .

But if permitted to shoot latter, during shooting phase it may lead to unusual situations like :

OK I was charged in the rear and I fled and now I am within 1 MU of antother ennemy SK unit, unprotected and in the back of that SK unit . I will shoot on green dice and he cannot shoot back ( which means by running away I can close to a potential juicy target )

So lots of possibilities. To make it easy, I would just say : you fled, you SK  you are automaticaly considered as having shot .

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2019, 10:27:16 AM »
I have no issues with that scenario. Doesn't happen that often anyway, and if you remember that real movement isn't in discreet chunks the way the tabletop represents it it isn't unrealistic.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2019, 08:20:34 PM »
The issue is logic in the rules and simplicity .

If a unit charged in the rear or flank and does a SK it may not shoot at all . If it ran away it would be able to shoot at a new target . This may lead to confusion .

For me the simplicity is : cannot shoot at all as it had no target to begin with and they are too busy running for their lives even if charged by fully armoured infantry  8)

But it's only an opinion

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2019, 08:42:36 PM »
If a unit charged in the rear or flank and does a SK it may not shoot at all .

Are you basing that off the clary I quoted above? (mind you as noted I am not quite sure what it is on about) If so that only says you cannot shoot in the shooting phase if you make a free turn - so if you don't you'd still be able to shoot.


Quote
If it ran away it would be able to shoot at a new target . This may lead to confusion .


Not really IMO as they are distinct and different actions.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Onurbm

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2019, 08:59:41 AM »


I do not agree.  The rules make it clear how to turn a unit.  The rules make it clear the move distance involved.  A skirmish move is the same as any other move and is quite precise.  There is nothing different about it. 

Richard
Clear ? not Clear ? maybe just old habits from other rulesets ( FOG, ADG ) where skirmiishing move is handled differently ... :o
Bruno

badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2019, 12:20:47 PM »
Anyway Simon answered in another post .

If you run away or SK, you did a shooting so no more shooting after in the same turn.

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2019, 02:14:27 PM »
Anyway Simon answered in another post .

If you run away or SK, you did a shooting so no more shooting after in the same turn.


Well, when he updates the claries to actually say that ...
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2019, 07:19:45 PM »
Well he wrote it on the forum and it has been so for years

lionheartrjc

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2019, 07:46:12 AM »
Well he wrote it on the forum and it has been so for years

With respect, I have been involved in the development of the rules since play testing, and if you mean that "skirmising is a shooting action" has been so for years then I respectfully disagree as this  post is the first time I have seen this stated and I have played games with the author where troops have skirmished and then shot in the shooting phase.

9.6A3.1 (page 91) states that troops who shot at chargers in the charge phase may not shoot in the shooting phase (thereby implying that troops who did not shoot in the charge phase may shoot).

If we are now saying that troops who skirmished cannot shoot in the shooting phase - then IMO you have introduced a rule change and it needs a change to secion 9.6A.

If it was stated in a post on the old forum, it still doesn't override what the rules say - it need an official clarification to do that.

Richard



« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 07:56:57 AM by lionheartrjc »

badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2019, 10:46:58 AM »
Quote
If we are now saying that troops who skirmished cannot shoot in the shooting phase - then IMO you have introduced a rule change and it needs a change to secion 9.6A.

 

What is written by Simon, unless I am mistaken, is that if charged in the FLANK or in the REAR , and so does not face the ennemy, does not have the ennemy in it's arc of fire during the charge, if the unit runs away or make a SK turning to face the charge but still retreating ...it is considered having fired without firing ...

If a unit fired - or is considred having fired - during SK it may not fire anymore .