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Author Topic: Skirmishing or running away  (Read 379 times)

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2019, 12:03:15 PM »
This is a lack of clarity issue from me that I need to clear up. :(
Leave it with me for a few days while I get some time to find a proper answer and then will clarify.

My intent was that turning round as a skirmish AND then shooting as well was too generous.
So I don't want the rules to allow that.  That's the key part.
Either they pay to turn around and are allowed to shoot at anything to their front before movement phase.
Or we allow the turn as part of skirmish - which feels right as a "back away and turn to face the threat" order - but no shots.
So whatever I come up with will cause that to happen.

RJC is right about how it is written so I need to ponder and fix.  Hope that bit on intent vs draft helps in between.

Si
Rolling Skulls in the land or Purple

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2019, 12:31:29 PM »
Cheers. Take your time on the clary to get it right, I don't think this one is massively urgent.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2019, 01:55:46 PM »
We are beginning to see the light 8)

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2019, 02:28:04 PM »
Pleasure.

Si
Rolling Skulls in the land or Purple

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2019, 08:33:15 PM »
Thinking a bot more about this, and a bit of a chat with RJC, I think that it would be simpler and better to just have troops who skirmish/run-away make that move, don't bother with the option to turn if charged fromflank/rear, and to let them shoot of they happen to have a target in the shooting phase. It happens so rarely that it isn't an issue.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2019, 07:33:56 AM »
Yes it's kept simple. the edge turns and forms a new line there.
So indeed after expanding back to legal formation you are 1.5 BW deep and you did have a 3BW frontage.
So you have "moved" your nearest point 1.5BW away.

We are being a bit to literal on this anyway.  In reality a most manoeuvring of front rank jis done at walking pace to get in position, whereas rear ranks of loosed formation will run to fill in behind.  So its is not so silly anyway.

Granted it is if someone deployed 12 warband single rank and then turns ... but in MeG that is suicide anyway so who cares.  So in all practical circumstances I have never seen it matter hugely.

Si
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stuuk

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2019, 10:10:50 AM »
yes when turning your old side becomes your new front

badhabum

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2019, 05:02:20 PM »
I would just like to ask a precision :

When you run away, you just go away from the nasty TUG ( or SUG )that charges you.

Now does a SUG that is charged in the rear or flank turn 90 or 180 to face the charging unit or is it simply the moving distance that's modified ? ( I know if charged frontally, it shoots and retreats FACING the charging unit ).

Why the question : because if you say make it simple, if they SK and had no legal target while skirmishing, they may shoot during the shooting phase . That means they will be able to shoot at the previous charging unit .

It is Ok for me, but makes SK units much more powerful and difficult to counter.

lionheartrjc

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2019, 05:14:36 PM »
9.4D4.4 (p75).  You can skirmish or run away in one of three directions: (note after rolling the dice to determine how far you move)
a. To your own front.
b. To your own rear.
c. In the direction of the charge.

9.4D4.5 (p76)
If you run away you face away from the chargers.
If you skirmish you face toward the chargers.

So, if I have understood the previous answers in this thread correctly (and I am not certain about that), my understanding is that if the skirmishing UG was forced to turn then it cannot shoot in the shooting phase.   Note, if it was facing the chargers frontally and then merely went directly to its own rear then it has not turned and so any elements that didn't shoot in the charge phase (possibly because they were more than 1BW from the charge path) could now shoot.  This could even be at a unit that wasn't involved in the charge.

Richard

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2019, 05:24:13 PM »
As it stands only a unit skirmishing can free turn when charged from the flank/rear and if it takes that option (the turn) it cannot shoot - that is the clary (its not actually in the rules document it was added later). Troops running away do not have this option and stay facing in the direction thay have moved.

Currently, apart from that specific case, there is nothing in the rules about a unit which skirmished or ran away without shooting not being able to shoot in the shooting phase if they happen to have a target.

Simon has said he thinks the skirmish/run away action should inherantly be considered a shooting action as well and so preclude any shooting in the shooting phase - and, I think, that the free turn be allowed for both skirmish and run away (but I may be wrong on that).

I am suggesting that the clary mentioned above should be removed and that a unit that skirmished/ran-away without shooting should be allowed to shoot in the shooting phase should there be a target (an infrequent event IMO).
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

lionheartrjc

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2019, 05:34:48 PM »
As it stands only a unit skirmishing can free turn when charged from the flank/rear and if it takes that option (the turn) it cannot shoot - that is the clary (its not actually in the rules document it was added later). Troops running away do not have this option and stay facing in the direction thay have moved.

If you read the rules, there doesn't appear to be any option.  Troops running away must face away from the chargers.  Troops who are skirmishing must face the chargers.

I still find the clarification so vague as to be unhelpful.

Richard 

nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2019, 06:57:55 PM »
I suspect you are correct and I have got a bit tangled up because of the clary which says it is optional  :-[
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2019, 07:53:41 AM »
As it stands only a unit skirmishing can free turn when charged from the flank/rear and if it takes that option (the turn) it cannot shoot - that is the clary (its not actually in the rules document it was added later). Troops running away do not have this option and stay facing in the direction thay have moved.

If you read the rules, there doesn't appear to be any option.  Troops running away must face away from the chargers.  Troops who are skirmishing must face the chargers.

I still find the clarification so vague as to be unhelpful.

Richard

There is indeed no choice in the matter.  Skirmish and you face the enemy, run away and you face away from them.  Point me at the clarry causing confusion - apologies - as I am in MeG mode this week.  Will fix it.  Si
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nikgaukroger

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2019, 08:47:09 AM »
Bottom of page 8 and start of page 9 in the claries doc - Skirmishing When Charged From Flank/Rear.

IMO reads as if the turn is optional.

Plus the question of whether they should be able to shoot in the shooting phase which would also apply to troops running away who ended up with a target in front of them - IMO there is nothing in the rules stopping them shooting (and that is OK).
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

lionheartrjc

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Re: Skirmishing or running away
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2019, 08:47:59 AM »
It is the section headed "Skirmishing when Charged from Flank/Rear" at the bottom of page 8, top of page 9.

Richard