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Author Topic: Displacing sugs  (Read 471 times)

stuuk

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Displacing sugs
« on: May 21, 2019, 07:55:14 PM »
Tugs can displace friendly sugs by the minimum to make room, but what happens if there's no space because of other units?

What about displacing backwards through the unit causing the displacement? That would be a passing through move on reality. Is it allowed? Would it cause a kab?

lionheartrjc

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2019, 06:47:29 AM »
1. If there isn't room, you can't displace it.  Seems self-evident really.  This is however very rare.

2. Displacing can be in any direction, as long as it is the minimum to allow the TuG to move and the other conditions (page 68) are met.  No KaBs are involved.

stuuk

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2019, 07:09:30 PM »
Thanks for the help but it's still very unclear.
You state that if there is no room it cannot be displaced, but then go on to reference passing through moves (interpenetration) from page 68 but say that there are no KaB tests.


So let us say that my TUG of cavalry withes to displace a SUG of friendly skirmishing cavalry.
Typically this would be no problem and the SUG would move by the minimum in the direction I select if there is an option, with no reference at all to passing through, correct?

Now, if the SUG in question cannot love left or right because of other friendly SUGs and cannot move far enough forward to fit because of the enemy, then the only place it could go is backwards through my TUG.
That seems to be allowable as it is the minimun to fit, but then since KaB tests are irrelevant for this rule why the reference to page 68 ?

lionheartrjc

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2019, 08:13:21 PM »
Sorry, I think I understand your confusion.

I don't refer to interpenetrations at all.  Page 68 is referring to 9.3 G - Displacing Friendly SuGs.  There is no mention of KaB tests  on page 68.

Page 65, 9.3 D 1.1.2 makes it very clear that a TuG can displace a friendly SuG and move through it.
Page 66, 9.3 D 2 does imply  that if you pass through a friendly mounted SuG with a TuG of cavalry then it would cause a KaB test.  9.3 D 3 (page 66 again) however does not cover who should get a KaB test.

KaB tests are mentioned on page 66 (9.3 D.3 in relation to passing through friends.  This however is referring to Run Aways, Skirmishes, Routs or Forced Charges.  I have always found it odd that KaB tests are included here as none of these occurs during the movement phase (which is what 9.3 is all about). 

So I think you do have a valid point - does a mounted SuG displaced and passed through by a TuG cause a KaB test and if so on whom?    It is unfortunate that the examples in the rules do not cover this situation.  A query for Simon... 

p.s. The reason I haven't spotted this before is that I am usually very careful to avoid getting my mounted SuGs trapped in front of TuGs.




As far as I can see, the rules are very clear.


stuuk

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 08:13:27 PM »
Yes, I think the rules are clear and I am reading more into them than they actually say.
As written, I can displace a SUG through a moving TUG and there is no KaB test involved.

The question is, should that be allowed.

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 07:33:46 AM »
Yes in the movement phase.  I decided it was part of the philosophy of SuGs not driving the main battle.
But not in Charge phase as they give too much free cover to attackers.
So all as written.  ;) :D
Rolling Skulls in the land or Purple

stuuk

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 10:33:05 PM »
Thank you Simon, all very clear and as written, as you say.
Now to see if I can finally win with my accursed Parthians before list entry for Skullrollers...

badhabum

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 01:09:23 PM »
May a skirmishing or fleing TUG displace an ennemy SUG while "fleeing" ?


Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2019, 07:48:42 AM »
Does a TuG skirmish or flee in the movement phase?
Rolling Skulls in the land or Purple

badhabum

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 09:59:21 AM »
No but the question comes always back in a trounament so ...an official clary might be needed  to make people understand how it should be played.

I am not sure of the answer myself as so many things have been written :-)

Some questions always come back so a FAQ or better more exemples would be needed
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 10:01:09 AM by badhabum »

nikgaukroger

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 11:03:46 AM »
IMO it is pretty clear.

The rules say you can push back enemy SUGs in the movement phase.

Skirmish and Run Away moves by TUGs happen in the charge phase.

Ergo ...
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

badhabum

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 11:26:28 AM »
Yes but... For some people I need it written plainly ... discussions always discussions

nikgaukroger

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 11:27:56 AM »
It is plain.

I suggest a pollax to the face for those who think otherwise  :o  ;D
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

AntiokosIII

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 05:40:41 PM »
Pole axe to the face sounds harsh. Perhaps a large sock filled with fresh manure?
Miniature Wargaming is the only completely honorable form of warfare ever invented by man.

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Displacing sugs
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 09:02:42 AM »
It is a move only allowed in the MOVEMENT PHASE.

Is that clear enough?

S
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