Displacing sugs

[Simon Meg-Meister]

This is a discussion stream so no clarries have been altered or updated or corrected at all.
Only if they hit the official clarries section.
So nothing to get frustrated about.

S

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Tugs can displace friendly sugs by the minimum to make room, but what happens if there's no space because of other units?

What about displacing backwards through the unit causing the displacement? That would be a passing through move on reality. Is it allowed? Would it cause a kab?

So going back to the original as the stream has driged a bit.

Top line any type of SuG can be moved.
Bottom one is only possible if you can pass through the troops type.

Seems pretty clear and always has been 

[badhabum]

Top line any type of SuG can be moved.
Bottom one is only possible if you can pass through the troops type.

Sorry be for me, non native english player, it is very difficult to follow this discussion . Can someone explain what should be done in simple plain language 

My problem comes from "bottom one .."

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Bottom of the two questions ...

You can't displace something backwards if you can't go through it .... obviously.

Si

[Onurbm]

Ovious to me but not so obvious to some as this happens in other rules ( shoul I name some  ) . thanks for stating it .

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Indeed.  Always happy to clarify - even the largely obvious.


S

[stuuk]

Sorry to be an arse. But. Just because you claim something is obvious doesn't make it so - hence the confusion within this thread including your previous answer to the question!
The rules must be within the rule book, clearly and easily discernible - much within MeG is not in the rule book, and this is not within the clarifications but should be - why do you think it should not be?

I know I keep banging on and on but the lack of clarity in the rule book is really costing you players.
Nobody at my club will play it largely because of this and I myself am getting annoyed with the to-ing and fro-ing as well.
Sorry, but it's better to be honest isn't it?

This type of thing may seem a small issue, but try playing with a force largely made up of SuGs - this then makes an enormous difference to the play of the game.
Try teaching the game but changing the way things work every time you play it - nothing puts off a new player faster.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Hi Suuk

Accepted and noted.
Should all be clearer in the new rulebook.

Its harder in practice where you have small playing pools.
The larger ones iron many things out themselves.

And remember there is no to-ing and fro-ing by me, which is what matters.  Streams like these are merely discussing threads.  There is only a clarry if its on the official pages.  So if you locally use discussions on these threads as clarries it will appear confusing. Best avoided. I'm not sure I get the argument you can ride through mounted SuGs when the rules clearly state you can only go through foot SuGs though? I must be missing something.

This stream has rambled a fair bit and addled my brain for sure.... so I sympathise.  Hence me posting that "simple" bit of the rules to try to refocus it.

Si

Si

[stuuk]

Simon, bearing in mind this basic ruling - "You can't displace something backwards if you can't go through it"'

How can I get out of a situation like this:

The red enemy refuse to charge because this will allow the SuG horse archers to evade, clearing up the problem for this confused Parthian.

The SUGs are stuck - they cannot go forward and assume they cannot go left or right due to other SUGs.
They cannot voluntarily go back through the TuG cataphracts behind them either as not allowed as a prompted action

The TuGs equally cannot displace the horse archer SuGs - there is not room to move them, and they cannot displace them backwards as that would go through the cataphracts which is not allowed.

So here, unless I am missing something (and please tell me if i am!) the TuGs cannot get at the enemy and this is a traffic Jam that causes them more problem than the enemy causes them!

[attachment deleted by admin]

[nikgaukroger]

If the catafracts are within 3BW you could let them forced charge through the horse archers - OK, IIRC, that will destroy the horse archers but you do get the catafracts at the enemy ...

[stuuk]

Yes that is the only way under the current ruling.

Is that what Simon intends?

[lionheartrjc]

Alternatively the SuGs turn 90 and move away.  Don't get stuck in this position!

[stuuk]

That is not a possible option from the scenario I posited above.
Indeed it's a terrible position to get stuck in.

I really just want to know though if this is the designers intent.

[nikgaukroger]

Don't get stuck in this position!

Well, quite. If you end up in such a mess I'd expect the way out to be tricky, costly in cards and/or highly sub-optimal 

[stuuk]

Really, why?
horse archer armies are hard enough to use already without extra things to remember. This is only doing exactly what we think they did - put the archers up front and then come in with the cats.


Do bear in mind that in this scenario the enemy holds all the cards  - he can charge you, or displace you - both of which DO allow the horse archers to pass through the TuGs.

So why can I not do it to myself voluntarily?

Doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO.