M7 - Expand while stationary - Is it possible for a unit in combat?

[Rino]

Actually MF is considered as an action you could do during fighting phase or during movement.
So it's rather diluted mud

[nikgaukroger]

The matter in hand is nothing to do with MF moves, it is all to do with the allowance of M moves.

Where does it say you can't make any 'M' move in the movement phase to break contact?

Say I am hit in the flank/read during the charge. No better, lets say my opponent is hit in the flank/rear.
I can't see where it says the charged unit can't make, say, an M2 move straight ahead and break contact - presuming it survives.

If someone can direct me to the appropriate rule I would be grateful.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

It's MF moves only once you are in a scrap.

Bugger I see the issue. Left hand side of the QRS Prompted ACtion Table has lost an entry.

"Movement phase if not in combat" should be third one down where its blank.

S

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Added to official clarries...

M moves when in Combat
These are not allowed.  Only MF moves and break off are allowed until out of combat.  This is an ommission on the QRS.  The blank box on the left should read " Movement Phase if not in Combat".

[nikgaukroger]

BTW does it actually say that a unit in melee cannot run away/skirmish if charged?

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Hmmm  .... possibly not but the intent is you cannot.
Thought it was a very early clarry but I see it not!

S

[mad lemmey]

So does this mean expand while stationary is not allowed in combat?

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Correct.  In combat its all MF1 and MF2 moves to get the same effects.
So the game foes "micro" once combat starts.

S

[daveparish]

Which brings it back to the question - in combat can you use MF1 to expand (ie you are not making an overlap or contact - just extending the unit further eg to stop a potential flank move)?

[rayfredjohn]

Which brings it back to the question - in combat can you use MF1 to expand (ie you are not making an overlap or contact - just extending the unit further eg to stop a potential flank move)?

RJC plays it that you can use MF1 in this way

[nikgaukroger]

And indeed has ruled that way, however, he asked the question because earlier this year Si posted the following:

MF1 moves
Are intended for use only when in combat.
Notes: "Create Supporting Files, fill gaps, create new rear ranks etc.  Multiple actions allowed."
Alas that "etc." may be a lazy error on my part.
MF1 is to create people fighting.  So it really is "Create Supporting Files, fill file gaps, create new files or create new rear ranks" and nothing more (?check).
That again is why it is cheaper than some of the equivalent moves such as an expansion move M7. 
But with the "etc." I can see how it could be rightly argued that this includes using it to just "expand" as per M7 on the cheap.  My mistake.
It is a response to close enemy and an imminent and present danger. I think to get that I simply need to delete the etc?

Which says that Si does not intend it to be so.

However, a new clarification has, as yet, not been published.

[Dru]

So whats the latest on this?

Si is back on the forums, so may be able to make final statement now?

[Simon Meg-Meister]

And indeed has ruled that way, however, he asked the question because earlier this year Si posted the following:

MF1 moves
Are intended for use only when in combat.
Notes: "Create Supporting Files, fill gaps, create new rear ranks etc.  Multiple actions allowed."
Alas that "etc." may be a lazy error on my part.
MF1 is to create people fighting.  So it really is "Create Supporting Files, fill file gaps, create new files or create new rear ranks" and nothing more (?check).
That again is why it is cheaper than some of the equivalent moves such as an expansion move M7. 
But with the "etc." I can see how it could be rightly argued that this includes using it to just "expand" as per M7 on the cheap.  My mistake.
It is a response to close enemy and an imminent and present danger. I think to get that I simply need to delete the etc?

Which says that Si does not intend it to be so.

However, a new clarification has, as yet, not been published.

Actually it isn't M7 n the cheap so not worried about the being done as an MF1.  It does seem a reasonable short threat reaction when in melee and keeps it simply that its MF1/2 moves ONLY when in combat but otherwise no exceptions needed.  I will leave it that way.

I have added a clarry on methods of making contact with enemy.  Currently as follows.  Please check adn prompt me on any lack of clarity or imissions.

Ways of making contact with enemy UGs
There are only the following methods:
1. A charge making contact with front edge or corner.
2. If you are in combat, an MF1 move used to expand to frontally fight (your front edge) an enemy base adjacent to your UG. This can thereby draw a new enemy UG into a frontal Melee Combat, and potentially if said enemy is not currently in combat (i.e. corner to corner contact on one side due to an enemy base loss).  Note no such move is allowed if it creates only a flank contact with an enemy (e,g, to thereby avoid being charged in the flank); but if there were a base to fight frontally they could do so and would then face a front and flank melee combat.
3. If you are in combat, an MF2 move that turns to face to give a frontal combat where previously their was side or rear contact.
4. If not in combat, but UGs are touching in corner-to-corner/edge-to-edge contact, then by the turn or wheel moves on page 80 Note an MF1 is not allowed as at the time you are not in combat at the time of making the move.  The philosophy being that they are still moving as organised units, whereas MF1, MF2 moves are the general repsonses of troops in a fight, to get into the scrap.

[daveparish]

MF1 moves
Are intended for use only when in combat.
Notes: "Create Supporting Files, fill gaps, create new rear ranks etc.  Multiple actions allowed."
Alas that "etc." may be a lazy error on my part.
....
My mistake.
It is a response to close enemy and an imminent and present danger. I think to get that I simply need to delete the etc?

Don't forget to delete that "etc" - it doesn't look like it has made it to the clarries yet

Dave

PS sorry for the cheeky reminder - I realise you have a lot on your plate at the moment

[daveparish]

  Note no such move is allowed if it creates only a flank contact with an enemy (e,g, to thereby avoid being charged in the flank); but if there were a base to fight frontally they could do so and would then face a front and flank melee combat.

I suspect this comes from my game at Campaign with RJC - I was wriggling desperately to get out of a flank charge. Looks like my solution was valid even though the ruling went against me. Nevertheless it was a great game and I don't think that point affected the final outcome - so I'll just see it as Richard and me contributing to the ever tightening refinement of the rules!