Shoot and charge only

Kokor Hekkus · January 06, 2019, 12:36:34 AM

Can shoot and charge only, evade if charged. Unable to find in rules/clarries, important as we played it as no evade, if can evade then my opponent would have won

nikgaukroger · January 06, 2019, 07:54:33 AM

Shoot and charge of any type does not affect whether you can Skirmish or Run Away - it is the possession of missile weapons (which Shoot and Charge charge only troops do have) along with not being Charging Lancers, etc. that define the ability to do so.

Dru · January 06, 2019, 01:04:27 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on January 06, 2019, 07:54:33 AM
Shoot and charge of any type does not affect whether you can Skirmish or Run Away - it is the possession of missile weapons (which Shoot and Charge charge only troops do have) along with not being Charging Lancers, etc. that define the ability to do so.

What Nik said: yes, they can evade, as they have missile weapons, subject to the usual caveats (e.g. not being TUG infantry, not being Charging Lancers, etc).

Cheers
Dru

Texas Rebel · January 06, 2019, 05:55:17 PM

So, for example, Thematic Byzantine Tagmata Cavalry, who are Charging Lancer with Charge Only Bow (w/Shoot & Charge):

Would not be able to Skirmish or Run Away because of being Charging Lancer.
Cannot Shoot & Charge in a Counter Charge (because this is specifically detailed so in the Characteristic)

Since they are CL, they get a Forced Charge at 3BW, just within bow Shoot & Charge range, so don't need to be prompted.

But if they don't charge or can't charge, can Charge Only stand and shoot at incoming chargers?

badhabum · January 06, 2019, 07:53:26 PM

You can shoot if you do charge. So if you choose to stand, you do not charge. You do not charge, you do not shoot

nikgaukroger · January 06, 2019, 08:28:51 PM

The definition from the rules changes document is:

Quote
Charge-‐Only troops shoot only when charging or being charged. If charging they shoot as Shoot & Charge. They always shoot as experienced shooters.

Note the "or being charged" part.

How they shoot when they are chrage is stated - as Shoot & Charge - but not when they are being charged which, therefore, suggests to me that in that case they can shoot as a Stand & Shoot.

steads · January 06, 2019, 08:39:20 PM

I think you will find that Charge-Only shooters get Shoot & Charge for free and can shoot when charging or being charged.
This means CL with Charge-Only Bow that are the target of a charge may:
a] declare their own charge (paid for if outside 3BW, free if inside 3BW) and shoot at the time of charge declaration if within 3BW
b] receive charge and shoot at 1BW and give their opponent a dice shift
c] receive charge and not shoot
d] wait and declare (and pay for) a counter-charge and not shoot
They may not skirmish or run-away as they are CL

Kokor Hekkus · January 07, 2019, 09:48:21 AM

Forgot to mention that the target of the charge was Thematic Byzantine Tagmata Cavalry(Charging Lancer), Texas Rebel's previous post reminded me, so by luck we played it correct

Simon Meg-Meister · January 10, 2019, 10:21:42 AM

Quote from: steads on January 06, 2019, 08:39:20 PM
I think you will find that Charge-Only shooters get Shoot & Charge for free and can shoot when charging or being charged.
This means CL with Charge-Only Bow that are the target of a charge may:
a] declare their own charge (paid for if outside 3BW, free if inside 3BW) and shoot at the time of charge declaration if within 3BW
b] receive charge and shoot at 1BW and give their opponent a dice shift
c] receive charge and not shoot
d] wait and declare (and pay for) a counter-charge and not shoot
They may not skirmish or run-away as they are CL

Exactly so

mad lemmey · January 10, 2019, 12:59:15 PM

Quick question on this one:
Do all shoot and charges upgrade to experienced?
Or is this just shoot & charge only?
So do Romans go UP to exp when they charge?
Do skilled go DOWN?

lionheartrjc · January 10, 2019, 01:19:51 PM

Quote from: mad lemmey on January 10, 2019, 12:59:15 PM
Quick question on this one:
Do all shoot and charges upgrade to experienced?
Or is this just shoot & charge only?
So do Romans go UP to exp when they charge?
Do skilled go DOWN?

No - you need to distinguish "Charge Only" from "Shoot and Charge".

Charge Only is a skill level. It shoots as if Experienced, but only when charging (see above). Charge only troops cannot shoot at other times.
Shoot & Charge is a characteristic. It enables troops to shoot and charge, at the appropriate skill level. They can still shoot in other circumstances.

Richard