Minimal changes to 2020 lists + Points

[badhabum]

HYW Longbow as melee expert does make them a bit damn good (ie better than vikings in melee).  If we are happy with this...just make them all melee expert

Half and half makes them more complicated than the extra base of 2HC (keeping track of who is who can be a bit of a 'mare)

other similars

NKE axemen
lutat macemen

IMO, to make them all ME is creating a very strongh unit that can beat most of the ennemies they will face. They are LB, not roman legionaries . Half is good ( even too much ) .

[nikgaukroger]

HYW Longbow as melee expert does make them a bit damn good (ie better than vikings in melee).  If we are happy with this...just make them all melee expert

Primarily the grading must be looked at in relation to their historic opponents (as RJC has said before), secondary is out of period for game wide implications.

Half and half makes them more complicated than the extra base of 2HC (keeping track of who is who can be a bit of a 'mare)

IMO it shouldn't be too difficult, however, after last weekend watching Hunter get confused about his Danish dwarfs this may be a bigger issue that I had previously considered 

[marshalney2000]

HYW Longbow as melee expert does make them a bit damn good (ie better than vikings in melee).  If we are happy with this...just make them all melee expert

Primarily the grading must be looked at in relation to their historic opponents (as RJC has said before), secondary is out of period for game wide implications.

Half and half makes them more complicated than the extra base of 2HC (keeping track of who is who can be a bit of a 'mare)

IMO it shouldn't be too difficult, however, after last weekend watching Hunter get confused about his Danish dwarfs this may be a bigger issue that I had previously considered 

Is Hunter a typical example though?

[nikgaukroger]

I think we all know the answer to that 

[marshalney2000]

I think we all know the answer to that 

There is no truth to the rumour that Hunter had a Dwarf general called Dildo Baggins.

[craig.w]

Maybe Duncan Head's Armies of the Macedonian and Punic wars is out of date now, but his quote of the functions of Indian chariots does not at all sound like fast skirmishers "...reuniting broken ranks, breaking up unbroken ranks, causing terror, showing magnificence and making a frightful din, these are the functions of chariots." P.54

For that matter, the description of Indian foot doesn't sound like loose foot either.

"Without thorns, not very uneven, with room for retreat, this is excellent ground for infantrymen."

[Robin]

As no competitions in December could the rule changes and or points changes not be made in December instead of January 1st to allow for us to fiddle and faff before the January competitions start ?

[marshalney2000]

As no competitions in December could the rule changes and or points changes not be made in December instead of January 1st to allow for us to fiddle and faff before the January competitions start ?

Robin, that sounds very sensible for the UK. Not sure if competitions in December elsewhere in the world although they could switch from January if that is the case.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Maybe Duncan Head's Armies of the Macedonian and Punic wars is out of date now, but his quote of the functions of Indian chariots does not at all sound like fast skirmishers "...reuniting broken ranks, breaking up unbroken ranks, causing terror, showing magnificence and making a frightful din, these are the functions of chariots." P.54

For that matter, the description of Indian foot doesn't sound like loose foot either.

"Without thorns, not very uneven, with room for retreat, this is excellent ground for infantrymen."

Definitely out of date by a decade on the Chariots.  Although they are not skirmishers as proposed.  They are Loose order shooters.  So all the above still works for me on the new definition.  They would all of that. 

A fair debate as to whether the spearmen could be close.  We get this interesting conundrum of players wanting minimum change ... while suggesting lots of changes.  Its a challenge for sure.

Looks like I will be bring Classical Indian to Aus in October ....

Si

[Jilu]

They are already shooting platforms and very controllable (as long as they have a shooting weapon). These are not gains unless they are becoming better shooters somehow (more skilled?). Devastating charger is not as good as the base factors they already get. It sounds like they are all becoming light chariots but with some more capabilities. More historical? Possibly. Better? hard to see how.

Martin

this will be a + for chariots with bow or javelin.

what about the chariots who only had close combat weapons like the long spear?

these will lose the battle chariot bonus they now have.

i also have a problem with the heavy chariots with bow that will be as good as cav. how to make the difference between chariots and the more modern cav that succeeded the chariots in a shooting context?
iho the chariots should not be as fast and as flexible as cav.

More historical, yes - which is better for a game based in history. Means that they will have to be used differently, as speedy mobile shooters primarily, combat troops a more secondary role.

So Indian chariots are now speedy skirmishers that move as fast as a Mongol on a horse? 

Yes indeed.  But they don't shoot or manoeuvre as freely of course.

[badhabum]

As no competitions in December could the rule changes and or points changes not be made in December instead of January 1st to allow for us to fiddle and faff before the January competitions start ?

Robin, that sounds very sensible for the UK. Not sure if competitions in December elsewhere in the world although they could switch from January if that is the case.

BRUSSELS IWC2020 JANUARY 2020
We would appreciate all changes beginning december 

[Robin]

If the changes were published in December at least the January competitions organisers have an easier choice.

[badhabum]

Also by the way, no more new lists, changes in lists for at least 2 years after 2020 would be appreciated

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Also by the way, no more new lists, changes in lists for at least 2 years after 2020 would be appreciated

I think we have largely run out of ideas anyway Jacques.
On rules, lists and points I set out to see if we could optimise with player input.
We can, we have, we done!
Anyone good enough at latin to do that as our own Veni Vini Vici?

S

[AntiokosIII]

No power on Earth or in Heaven can prevent Nic Gaukroger from putting out new lists. Resistance is futile!