question about engaged and unengaged file

[badhabum]

A file is considered engaged if, even as 2nd rank it gives a + during the fighting.

But what about a 2nd rank of mounted long spears that cancels the melee expert of an opposing  TUG ?

May it be displaced towards another file that has lost the second rank even if it already fight as 2nd rank in another file. It brings no + in the fight, but negates an opposing + .

[Dru]

I've always assumed it can move in that instance but your post does have me questioning myself.

Will be interested in Si's official clarification.

Dru

[lionheartrjc]

In the 2018 clarifications:

"An unengaged base is any base that is not currently in a position to contribute to a fight by either fighting in the front rank, providing rear ranks to a front rank in order to claim a +, or doing these as a supporting file. So for example, 2nd and 3rd ranks behind Devastating Charger - Melee Experts and unengaged in melee combat, but second to fourth ranks behind pikes are still engaged."

Engaged bases have been added to the glossary.  The pike example means that even after impact, the fourth rank of pike is still deemed to be contributing, even though 3 ranks would be sufficient to claim the + after impact.  Cancelling an enemy mounted expert is still giving a + in my opinion, cancelling a negative is the same effect as getting a +. 

Richard

[Rino]

Then since MF1 is abt moving unengaged based into fight , you can't use it?
Long spear cav giving an advantage when in 2 rank means you can't use an MF1 to create a support file?
Seems harsh, no?

[Dru]

  Cancelling an enemy mounted expert is still giving a + in my opinion, cancelling a negative is the same effect as getting a +. 

Richard

I'm keen to hear Si's intent on this. May not have wanted that effect in those scenarios? (Or maybe he does).

Paging Si...

[Simon Meg-Meister]

He does ...

If it's affecting a fight in some way .... it's busy.

Si

[Rino]

He does ...

If it's affecting a fight in some way .... it's busy.

Si

Actually Simon I checked the clarie and there is something I didn't understand regarding the engaged based in your example.

You mentioned that for the mêlée the 2nd and 3rd and 4 th rank of a devastating charger were not contributing to the mêlée factor and therefore are not engaged and therefore eligible for shooting.

For a pike having 3 ranks or 4 ranks doesn't change the mêlée bonus.
Ie the 4th rank isn't contributing to the melee.
Why would the 4th rank of pike been considered engaged then?

Thx for your kind confirmation

Second point closely related to the thread.
Can we used a MF1 with an engaged based (2nd rank for mounted long spear / 4th rank pikeman / 2nd rank PA)
If not with MF1 does it mean we can't move them at all since they are engaged?

Thx again and looking forward

Cheers


Cheers.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

a) MF1 is only for unengaged bases ... so anything contributing is busy and cannot be moved.
b) Pikes are a bit of an oddball and will add them to the definition of engaged for the glossary as below and to clarries ....

Bases who will contribute to a fight if viewed in their present position at the present time - either fighting (including to flank or rear), providing necessary ranks to claim a + to a front base, creating a benefit in the fight as a characteristic such as Shieldwall, or as a supporting file as either front rank or supporting ranks. Pikes are an exception with the any 4th rank still counting as engaged even though the Melee Combat + is for 3+ ranks, 16 deep being their standard form.