2026 Proposed Amendment - #4.5 - Foot Long Spear

[lionheartrjc]

See here.

Change "Supporting files foot ighting long spear do not downgrade the colour of the additional dice,"
Points reduction for long spear.

The long spear category remains for troops other than hoplites and thureophoroi.

[martymagnificent]

I'm not sure this change is significant enough to justify a points drop for longspear.

Martin

[nikgaukroger]

The feeling is they are probably a tad overpriced compared to Pike currently. Obviously, views welcome and it is not yet set in stone.

[lionheartrjc]

In testing we found that not downgrading the supporting files can make a significant difference.
The points reduction is not huge.  You would need 48 long spear to gain enough points for a SuG of 6 unprotected skirmishing archers.

Richard

[martymagnificent]

The feeling is they are probably a tad overpriced compared to Pike currently. Obviously, views welcome and it is not yet set in stone.

Perhaps, but I think they are already pretty good in general (they seem to feature in comp winning armies a fair bit) and a tad underpriced compared to polearms.

Martin

[LawrenceG]

The feeling is they are probably a tad overpriced compared to Pike currently. Obviously, views welcome and it is not yet set in stone.

Given that pike are LSp that can gain an extra combat factor if they want, for almost no extra cost, I agree with this.

[accard]

For the sake of simplicity, how about getting rid of long spear as a class and incorporating those remaining long spear into the polearm category?
Or is there a definite specific interaction which is being sought? 

[badhabum]

LS and PA are quite different so you propose to simplify and make LS less useful vs mounted ?

[nikgaukroger]

Admin Note

Apologies, managed to delete a post from Jacques that I was trying to move to a more appropriate topic - the topic about the Spear category for hoplites: https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3786.0

Please repost there.

[accard]

Well, if simplified as I suggested there wouldn't be a LS class.
All existing LS would either be the new spear of existing PA class. 

Should medieval spear armed troops (that are currently classed as Long Spear)  be so much more effective against CL/DC mounted in impact than other similarly armed troops from an earlier period? Both spear and PA are still pretty decent vs such mounted.

[nikgaukroger]

Short answer is yes we believe they should be.

[nikgaukroger]

I'd also say that I don't think merging LSp and PA would be justified.

[accard]

Would you be able to slightly expand on why the medieval chaps should be more effective, please?

And what will be happening to the Chinese/Asian LSp infantry?

[nikgaukroger]

Would you be able to slightly expand on why the medieval chaps should be more effective, please?

We see them as a counter to hard charging cavalry, anti-cavalry specialists if you like, which was not what hoplites were.

And what will be happening to the Chinese/Asian LSp infantry?

Up in the air at present I think. I'd assume no change unless it is mentioned, whilst being aware that some may change.

[badhabum]

If I understand well, it is based on the hoplites "open flank" or the shieldless flank . It's basically the same problem encountered by a shieldwall style formation. The right flank had a tendency to shift towards the center as they had no one to protect them .So the problem of the hoplites formation does exist but is not restricted to those guys . PA guys had, I suspect , the same tendency, shieldwall a packed formation the same . That opens another can ...what about shooting at tha flank . If you use the logic of the flank problem of hoplites there are many similar cases .