Battle wagons and their flanks

[daveparish]

Maybe I'm being dense but I can't work out how the flanking rules work with battlewagons.

Battlewagons can fight with their long edge. In another unit this would be their flank - I can't see anything that says whether or not they are flanked when fighting with this edge (seems strange if they are).

I'm guessing contacting their rear is still a rear contact but what about their front? If their side is their fighting edge does the front also count as fighting to the front or is it a flank - and if so they are advancing "flank first" when they move (seems strange ... and vulnerable).

The only thing I think I'm clear about is that they only shoot through their long edge - is that right?

yours

Confused of Brighton

[Onurbm]

Is never ever contacted in the Flank nor in the rear .... and the BWG cannot voluntarilly come into contact with Ennemy  ..

[daveparish]

Do you have a page number or paragraph number for that? I can't find it

[lionheartrjc]

9.4 A2.2 (p 70) states that Battlewagons cannot charge.

I cannot find anywhere that says that Battlewagons don't have flanks.  They get the benefit of claiming for Barricades 9.11. B3.3 (p103).  I think the intention of 9.11 B.3 is that Battlewagons don't have flanks but it could be better worded.

Richard

[daveparish]

That was my conclusion too - I think a clarry is needed. For completeness it should say what happens at front and back as well as sides. The easiest would be "no combat bonus for fighting flank/rear against battlewagons" but it could also say "bonus only for fighting rear"  ... or else whatever cunning phrase Simon comes up with.

I think it is clear that battlewagons only shoot to the side - not over the horses heads?

[stuuk]

I've seen the shooting done from the short sides as well (over horse heads) but didn't bother to query it at the time.
Don't have my book so can't check what it actually says on that point.

[lionheartrjc]

9.11 B 2.  (p103)  Shooting each half of the long edge fires at full effect. 

So it  is not possible to shoot from the short edge.  I think this is clear.

Richard

[daveparish]

That's how I read it. Just leaves the flank issue now.

[Jilu]

9.11 B 2.  (p103)  Shooting each half of the long edge fires at full effect. 

So it  is not possible to shoot from the short edge.  I think this is clear.

Richard

so only the long edge shoots, and 1 dice per half (per basewith)?

[lionheartrjc]

Each half of the long edge fires at full effect.   So the long edge will shoot twice, once from each half.

[daveparish]

Which only leaves the question of how the flanks are treated. That's one for a Simon clarry, I think.

[lionheartrjc]

Which only leaves the question of how the flanks are treated. That's one for a Simon clarry, I think.

I agree it does need Simon to confirm, but I think the intention is that the long edge is not treated as a flank in combat and that is the way I will rule it when umpiring.

Richard

[Jilu]

for bw's flanks are the short edge i guess.

i must say that i have a problem with the wagons,...these were used in wagonlagers and not in offense. the player should be encouraged to not offer the short edge to the enemy  ( one side has the horses pulling the wagons, chains were used to link them) maybe a rule as :
a collored card to deploy, remove the horses, link chains between wagons, and once it is done, it cannot be undone, the wagons are fixed where they are...

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Indeed needs me to fix. 
BWgs have no flanks or rears for combat purposes.  All edges fight as if front edges.

Current clarry in italics, added bit in bold.

BATTLEWAGONS
Add to page 103 B4 so it reads "they may not charge, skirmish, run away, pursue, flank march or ambush".
BWgs have no flanks or rears for combat purposes - all edges fight as if front edges.
Note they claim barricades benefits in Charge Combat, Melee Combat and shooting - so have cover all round.
BWg changing from 2x2 to 4x1 formation can only drop back a single BWg base into the forming column per contration action, so they go through an intermediate formation with 1 wide at the front and 2 side by side at the back of the forming column.

Si

[daveparish]

One more question - what is the maximum number of dice warwagons can have (in shooting or combat)?
I can imagine two answers. Either two (one per each half) or lots (so if an enemy contacted both long edges on both halves it would be four)

Dave P