shooting base removal and redress ranks

[Jilu]

A units loses a file from shooting in the middle of other files *edited*

I could not find in the rules when it redresses ranks and if it is a free action or a prompted action.

[nikgaukroger]

If it loses a file then it loses the file (assuming it remains in a legal formation - if losing a file would result in an illegal formation presumably a base lost is taken from elsewhere). Any formation changeafter that would need to use some form of paid action.

[badhabum]

The legal requirement being 2 bases wide and max 4 bases deep ...what happens to a unit 3 bases wide, 2 deep that moves and loses the 2 middle bases ?  The TUG is still in a legal formation but with a gap and so needs to reform.

Now what about the same unit that charges and loses the middle ranks ?

[nikgaukroger]

The legal requirement being 2 bases wide and max 4 bases deep ...what happens to a unit 3 bases wide, 2 deep that moves and loses the 2 middle bases ?  The TUG is still in a legal formation but with a gap and so needs to reform.

Such a formation is only legal in combat so cannot lose both the middle bases to shooting. Page 55 second point.

Now what about the same unit that charges and loses the middle ranks ?

Ditto. Until it is in combat it must conform to the basic formation rules - shooting at chrgers happens before combat and so, again, cannot have a gap.

Simples 

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Yes can't remove one that creates a gap if not in combat.
Take another base.
No doubt someone will come ip up a rare occassion when this isn't possible - in which case umpire should rul to regorup them asap as per normal reform after combat rules.  Not sure that is worth a clarry though.  Would have to be a mixed TuG having lost all but one of one type of troop and with nothing behind it.  Not likely often surely.

S

[Jilu]

good ! thank you for the answer.

Peaople really really do want a gap in a 4-wide elephant line to be redressed....

i dissagreed, but now i know i was right

[badhabum]

Yes but while in combat, you must wait till the combat is over

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Single depth Elephants interesting indeed.
let me ponder that.
Probably does need a clarry/tweak to regroup them if not in combat.
Need to check the reforming rules and who I have them drafted.

Si

[nikgaukroger]

Single depth Elephants interesting indeed.
let me ponder that.
Probably does need a clarry/tweak to regroup them if not in combat.
Need to check the reforming rules and who I have them drafted.

Si

Surely they just have to remove a base such that they don't get a gap as a gap out of combat is not allowed? Why should 1 rank deep formations differ from others?

[Simon Meg-Meister]

They shouldn't be.  Just need to check how I worded the reform bit.
Don't want gaps when out of combat.

Si

[Dru]

In those situations, i think even if a middle base of ellies is killed, you'd remove an outside base of elephants rather than a middle one. Does create some oddities (ie who could of been legally shot) but removes the redress issue out of combat?

[badhabum]

And why would the nellies be different from other units ?

You remove the "killed" base unless by removing it you would not have any more bases in contact with the unit you fight ...

[nikgaukroger]

We're talking about base losses from shooting here not combat.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

If they are not in combat they have keep in legal formation so no gaps.
Only if in combat.
If a file targeted dies for some reason to create a "gap" then the target needs to reform s per Pages 55/56 of the rules.
Its not in combat - it has to be in legal formation.

Si