Ambush revealing and shooting

[LawrenceG]

12 A

4. For other actions ambushing UGs are out of command until they have moved unless their
general is with them in ambush. They may not be revealed unless they are moved in some
way or are discovered by enemy.
5. Troops in ambush may shoot at any enemy who come in range and arc and must be revealed
on table immediately before doing so.

4 says it is prohibited to reveal them, 5 says it's compulsory.

I assume 4 is intended as " ... They may not be revealed unless they are moved in some
way, are discovered by enemy, or immediately before shooting."

I infer that an ambush that has been revealed by shooting or discovery is still out of command as it hasn't moved (that's explicit).
Not sure if a general who moves to join the UG in that state is "with them in ambush" within the meaning of the rule. 

[badhabum]

Personally I do not see it as a problem. The enemy moves after shooting so yu must wait next turn. At shooting phase the ambushing unit must be deployed before rolling any dice , the enemy discovers it is being shot at  , spots the shooters who shoot..

[LawrenceG]

Personally I do not see it as a problem. The enemy moves after shooting so yu must wait next turn. At shooting phase the ambushing unit must be deployed before rolling any dice , the enemy discovers it is being shot at  , spots the shooters who shoot..

We know that's how it is supposed to work, but it's an extra step for the player (making the connection "being shot at = discovering the shooter". It could be more mentally ergonomic.

Anyway, having done the above,  the ambushing troops are still out of command because they haven't moved yet?

[badhabum]

Having been discovered by the enemy they wanted to transform in porcupines they are not "out of command" anymore as per rule 

[LawrenceG]

Having been discovered by the enemy they wanted to transform in porcupines they are not "out of command" anymore as per rule 

The rule is: 4. For other actions ambushing UGs are out of command until they have moved unless their
general is with them in ambush.

They have shot, but they haven't moved.

Or does shooting from ambush mean they are not "ambushing"?

[badhabum]

They may not be revealed unless they are moved in some
way or are discovered by enemy.

What about they are discovered by the enemy ! might it not be part of the answer ! being shot at is a way to discover the enemy  even an unpleasant one

[LawrenceG]

They may not be revealed unless they are moved in some
way or are discovered by enemy.

What about they are discovered by the enemy ! might it not be part of the answer ! being shot at is a way to discover the enemy  even an unpleasant one

The rule is: 4. For other actions ambushing UGs are out of command until they have moved unless their
general is with them in ambush.

They have shot, therefore they are revealed, but they haven't moved, therefore they are out of command.

[badhabum]

what about the end of the sentence : or are discovered by enemy.

[LawrenceG]

what about the end of the sentence : or are discovered by enemy.

12 A 4 has two sentences.

One is:

"They may not be revealed unless they are moved in some way or are discovered by enemy." 

This tells us the conditions for revealing the ambush (move or be discovered), but tell us nothing about being in or out of command.


The other is:

"For other actions ambushing UGs are out of command until they have moved unless their
general is with them in ambush."

This tells us when they are out of command (until they have moved if the general is not with them). It does not mention being discovered by enemy as a condition to be in command.

[Roger]

If 3 ambush cards( the generals entire command) are together and the general is with the centre ambush can he block move his command  normally or does he need an out of command card as well?

[lionheartrjc]

Cannot do a block move (doesn't comply with the requirements for a block move). The UGs on the 2 ambush cards that don't have a general are out of command.

Richard

[badhabum]

yes but we were also bickering about the fact that they are or not out of command if they only shoot at the enemy as they did not move so what's the right answer to this

[lionheartrjc]

Lawrence answered this one.  They are out of command until they move. Shooting is not moving... The rules say what they say!

Richard

[LawrenceG]

Lawrence answered this one.  They are out of command until they move. Shooting is not moving... The rules say what they say!

Richard

There is a plausible alternative understanding of what the rules say, though.

"For other actions ambushing UGs are out of command until they have moved unless their
general is with them in ambush."

One might take the view that an UG that has been revealed (by shooting) is no longer "ambushing".
In support of this view, if a general that has been swanning around in the open joins them after they have been revealed, one would hardly describe that general as "in ambush", but it's hard to believe the UG would be out of command in that situation. 

Would the following wording describe the intention more clearly ?

"For other actions ambushing UGs (whether revealed or not) are out of command until they have moved, unless their
general is with them."

[badhabum]

Lawrence answered this one.  They are out of command until they move. Shooting is not moving... The rules say what they say!

Richard

Dear Richard

The rules do say what interpretation a reader can give them .

When you write rules you think what you write and know what you mean but that does not mean another reader will interpret it exactly as you intend it to be !

Also never forget that outside Uk our mother language is NOT English and that we do have to ask questions to help understanding not what is written but what is intended .

Please be open minded