Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Ming'ing guns  (Read 127 times)

DracoStandard

  • Psiloi
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Ming'ing guns
« on: February 22, 2019, 06:27:06 PM »
Two questions about the Ming list

the light guns special rule...
"SPECIAL RULE - LIGHT GUNS. Instead of being deployed separately, light guns may be attached to a drilled infantry TuG. Add "Experienced-Light Artillery” shooting to the
normal characteristics of one base of the TuG, and use a lgiht gun base for this. Note that this base is still an infantry base not an artillery base. The TuG moves at BWg speeds
(but may double move) and with any move the TuG may abandon the light guns, in which case replace the artillery base with a normal base and revert to infantry speeds for
movement thereafter. Both artillery and bow or crossbow can shoot. "

Does this mean that if you have a bow base upgraded to be the light gun it can fire twice, once as a bow and once as artillery?  If so how does that work with the points and on the spreadsheet?
If not, does that mean that the poor second row bowman does not get to shoot?

and...

why are the artillery unskilled, but the light guns are experienced?

in fact why are all the chinese gunpowder artillery unksilled?

mad lemmey

  • MeG Moderator
  • Legionary
  • *
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2019, 07:16:39 PM »

mad lemmey

  • MeG Moderator
  • Legionary
  • *
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2019, 07:25:07 PM »
And just to prove Jim Davis recycles (his punchlines)

Administrator

  • Administrator
  • Auxilia
  • *
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2019, 07:30:31 PM »
The artillery is in addition to the bow shooting . So you get all the bow shots + the artillery

DracoStandard

  • Psiloi
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2019, 09:12:45 PM »
so how are they pointed?  do they get their bow shooting for free?

Administrator

  • Administrator
  • Auxilia
  • *
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2019, 10:56:07 PM »
You pay for the artillery base .. but it’s just a marker like the integral Roman shooters.

nikgaukroger

  • Centurion
  • *
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2019, 08:34:03 AM »
Basically it looks like the army builder cannot really deal with this oddity.

A base in the unit needs to, somehow, be (for e.g.) Drilled Loose, Average, Protected, Experienced Crossbow, Experienced Light Artillery - which cannot be done.

If you pay for an artillery base (I think) it has to be entered into the army builder in the skirmisher section as the TUG secton doesn't deal with artillery (despite it being on the drop down under Type) and, therefore, costs more than just adding the artillery shooting characteristics to a base in the TUG section as you would with the Roman integral light artillery.

Also Paul's other questions:

Quote
why are the artillery unskilled, but the light guns are experienced?

in fact why are all the chinese gunpowder artillery unksilled?
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

martymagnificent

  • Psiloi
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2019, 09:00:03 AM »
Yes it is hard to see anyone willingly fielding unskilled artillery. It's not like other artillery is exactly dominating the tabletops. I suppose you could wait for someone to charge them so you claim your KAB tests but its hard to see why they ever would given your fire at range will be doing nothing to them.

I find it hard to believe that Chinese artillery was that much worse than all other ancient/medieval artillery.

Martin

DracoStandard

  • Psiloi
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2019, 02:43:03 PM »
In terms of the army builder I would guess they get the xbow for free if they are xbow and artillery?

hmmm

nikgaukroger

  • Centurion
  • *
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2019, 02:52:55 PM »
There is a work around. IF you have the 7th base - the optional 2HCC one - then you give them the Experienced Light Artillery capability in the army builder, but count one of the missilemen bases as having it. Gets you the right points at least.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

DracoStandard

  • Psiloi
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #10 on: Today at 01:05:54 PM »
but why would you do that when you can get them cheap instead

and not have a double utility hit if that base dies

lionheartrjc

  • TWZ Team
  • Legionary
  • *
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #11 on: Today at 01:38:54 PM »
The light artillery is added to a drilled infantry TuG base without missile weapons.  You cannot add it to a crossbow or archer unit.

Richard

nikgaukroger

  • Centurion
  • *
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Ming'ing guns
« Reply #12 on: Today at 02:01:55 PM »
The light artillery is added to a drilled infantry TuG base without missile weapons.  You cannot add it to a crossbow or archer unit.

Richard

In which case I'd suggest that the list note that Paul quoted at the start of this topic doesn't clearly say that and, indeed, can be read as you can have a base with multiple shooting capabilities (as was stated by Administrator).

If the artillery shooting can only be added to a base without missile weapons can it be added to a crosbow/bow unit that has and anti-cavalry squad base by giving the latter the capability?
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."