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Author Topic: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG  (Read 110 times)

badhabum

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SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« on: February 02, 2019, 01:54:29 PM »
A SUG being pushed by a TUG may be pushed trough a friendly unit, if mounted will cause some KABs and will go trough the friendly TUG if there is place enough to go trough the unit  , otherwise will be destroyed .

OK ?

Now if I understand well, if the unit being pushed is a flexible TUG in SK formation, it will not be destroyed but stopped as it cannot find place on the other side of the unit and as there is contact with an enemy TUG that pushed it, there will be melee without charge .

OK ?

nikgaukroger

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 06:47:59 PM »
Don't recall the last bit from the rules - claries say they are pushed back by enemy TUGs as SUGS.

The exceptions from "true" SUGS are they don't evade off tabel as SUGS and are not destroyed if caught by a charging enemy TUG.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

badhabum

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 07:18:34 PM »
So we need Simon but I recall a discussion at IWC and I understood that there would be melee ...a contact without a charge

stuuk

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 11:59:12 AM »
The option here would be to elect to run away instead, since when pushed back you can choose to do so and in that case you would then apply the interpenetration rules as a result of an outcome move. I really don't think you can ever charge without charging.
At best you would end up in melee in the same way as an overlap moving into position on an existing combat but even that is generous as in order for that to happen there had to be some charge that did make contact previously.

badhabum

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 12:41:07 PM »
They may run away but now if pushed away and it is a TUG in SK formation and it cannot go further because no room enough ...what happens ?

It is not a charge but a move

The pushing TUG will contact the pushed TUG is SK formation and there will be melee ( IMO and how it was discussed at IWC but we need Simon's final decision )

nikgaukroger

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 01:36:35 PM »
You could, ot course, play the rules as they stand rather than what may, or may not, have been said in a conversation at a comp, possibly mis-recalled  :P
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

nikgaukroger

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2019, 02:35:41 PM »
Lets look at this from another angle.

Is there any ambiguity in the rules & claries as to what happens? (leaving aside any conversation at a comp)

The, is what the rules say sensible?
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

badhabum

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2019, 04:25:13 PM »
Movement into contact to have melee is already possible if a supporting unit turns 90* into the flank of the "enemy" . So moving into contact is a possibility .

lionheartrjc

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2019, 04:38:09 PM »
Movement into contact to have melee is already possible if a supporting unit turns 90* into the flank of the "enemy" . So moving into contact is a possibility .

But only if you are already in contact with the unit.
9.4G (p80) is explicitly called "Engaging when already in contact".    To initiate a melee in any other way involves a charge.

My view is that a FlexibleUG in skirmish formation cannot be pushed off table, it takes a KAB test instead.  The enemy UG cannot make contact but can stop 1mm away.

Richard

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2019, 12:35:28 PM »
TuG is SuG form cannot be pushed back of table.
You need to charge them to fight them and kill them off.
As RJC says there are only two ways you can create a melee in movement and they are designed for situation where in reality you are already in a fight.
The principle is they always try to stay on table.

Quote
Now if I understand well, if the unit being pushed is a flexible TUG in SK formation, it will not be destroyed but stopped as it cannot find place on the other side of the unit and as there is contact with an enemy TUG that pushed it, there will be melee without charge .

Jacques I think you are referring to a situation where such a SuG did a run away move and was caught.  If a true SuG it explodes.  It a TuG it takes the hit and puts ip a fight.

Si
Rolling Skulls in the land or Purple

badhabum

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Re: SUG and TUG in SK being pushed by TUG
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2019, 07:36:38 PM »
I stand corrected sir .