We had 2 rules questions on rules and one on etiquette yesterday.

A unit of cavalry hits a damaged unit of foot in flank, leaving the foot w/in 1 stand of breaking. During shooting of the same turn, the unit gets broken by shooting, and in the pursuit the cavalry hits another foot unit in flank. Does another charge combat take place immediately? We thought not because the break happened during shooting, not on the charge combat. Should the cavalry gotten to fight in melee? We thought not, believing the combat delayed until the next charge phase. Did we get this right?

Second, a 3-wide foot unit is hit in the flank and breaks. We know it should turn away from the attackers and rout. Does it measure the rout from the stand closest to the enemy or the one furthest? Does the routed unit form up and rout away, or does it rout away by individual stands? we did the latter, but were uncertain.

The third question involves etiquette. During shooting, I had skilled shooters. I picked up 4 dice instead of the correct 3 and rolled one wound. Realizing my error, I picked the dice back up and rolled 3 instead, rolling 2 wounds. What should I have done? My opponent was understandably upset that I had profited by my own error.

Thanks!

 " opponent was understandably upset that I had profited by my own error" 
   my unit broke on the re roll  one moment    safe      dice quickly picked up and re-rolled  now my unit breaks          fun game.   Rus will be back for revenge

   

Quote from: AntiokosIII on December 15, 2019, 11:36:34 PM

A unit of cavalry hits a damaged unit of foot in flank, leaving the foot w/in 1 stand of breaking. During shooting of the same turn, the unit gets broken by shooting, and in the pursuit the cavalry hits another foot unit in flank. Does another charge combat take place immediately? We thought not because the break happened during shooting, not on the charge combat. Should the cavalry gotten to fight in melee? We thought not, believing the combat delayed until the next charge phase. Did we get this right?

Second, a 3-wide foot unit is hit in the flank and breaks. We know it should turn away from the attackers and rout. Does it measure the rout from the stand closest to the enemy or the one furthest? Does the routed unit form up and rout away, or does it rout away by individual stands? we did the latter, but were uncertain.

The third question involves etiquette. During shooting, I had skilled shooters. I picked up 4 dice instead of the correct 3 and rolled one wound. Realizing my error, I picked the dice back up and rolled 3 instead, rolling 2 wounds. What should I have done? My opponent was understandably upset that I had profited by my own error.

Thanks!

1.  The combat is in the next turn (no melee phase combat is fought).  9.7C 8.2 p96.
2.  The unit wheels and/or turns to rout in the appropriate direction.  9.7B 4.2 p95.
3.  In my view in any situation where you roll too many dice or better colour dice then the option is with your opponent to take the result that you have rolled or to ask you to re-roll.  In a situation where you roll too few dice, then you just roll the additional dice.  In a situation where you roll worse colour dice, then you should re-roll with the correct colour dice. It is basically your responsibility to roll the correct dice.

Richard

1 and 2 as RJC

3 There s no rule.  But what I do is: a) if wrong soured rolled have to reroll, b) if you few rolled just add one, c) if you many rolled uses dice to randomise which now(s) were not real. SO Iw Ould have rolled a d6 and on a 4 you would have lost the original wound. 1-3 lost a blank.  5/6 reroll until you get 1-4..  That way you cannot improve on a mistaken dice roll with too many dice.  Only make it worse.

We have two solutions for rolling too many dice:

1) Reroll, but you can't do better than the roll with too many dice. (Punishment for being careless.)

2) Put the dice as they were rolled on the table and then roll randomly to select the die or dice to be excluded. (This is better, in my opinion.)

Quote from: lionheartrjc on December 16, 2019, 07:41:07 AM

Quote from: AntiokosIII on December 15, 2019, 11:36:34 PM

A unit of cavalry hits a damaged unit of foot in flank, leaving the foot w/in 1 stand of breaking. During shooting of the same turn, the unit gets broken by shooting, and in the pursuit the cavalry hits another foot unit in flank. Does another charge combat take place immediately? We thought not because the break happened during shooting, not on the charge combat. Should the cavalry gotten to fight in melee? We thought not, believing the combat delayed until the next charge phase. Did we get this right?

Second, a 3-wide foot unit is hit in the flank and breaks. We know it should turn away from the attackers and rout. Does it measure the rout from the stand closest to the enemy or the one furthest? Does the routed unit form up and rout away, or does it rout away by individual stands? we did the latter, but were uncertain.

The third question involves etiquette. During shooting, I had skilled shooters. I picked up 4 dice instead of the correct 3 and rolled one wound. Realizing my error, I picked the dice back up and rolled 3 instead, rolling 2 wounds. What should I have done? My opponent was understandably upset that I had profited by my own error.

Thanks!

1.  The combat is in the next turn (no melee phase combat is fought).  9.7C 8.2 p96.
2.  The unit wheels and/or turns to rout in the appropriate direction.  9.7B 4.2 p95.
3.  In my view in any situation where you roll too many dice or better colour dice then the option is with your opponent to take the result that you have rolled or to ask you to re-roll.  In a situation where you roll too few dice, then you just roll the additional dice.  In a situation where you roll worse colour dice, then you should re-roll with the correct colour dice. It is basically your responsibility to roll the correct dice.

Richard

Re. #2; we understood this to be the case. I plainly failed to explain the situation adequately.

          B     
    AAAB

Unit B is flanking unit A. Unit A routs. In a normal turn, Unit A would turn based upon the corner stand that was the new front (in this case, the stand furthest from B). This means the rout would be measured from there, and not from the stands in contact with B. This seems odd, since it 'breaks contact' with B. On the other hand, this IS the way we do turns in MeG. Can you see our confusion?

Back on #1, we assumed that no charge or melee should be fought, that the new target could not turn to face in the ensuing movement phase, but that a third unit could move up and charge the pursuers in flank while they were hitting the new target in flank on the ensuing turn. All correct?

On the etiquette question, while different approaches have been suggested, the one I picked has now been universally condemned as rude and careless. Lesson learned, and I owe Dale a lunch or something.

Quote from: lionheartrjc on December 16, 2019, 07:41:07 AM
3.  In my view in any situation where you roll too many dice or better colour dice then the option is with your opponent to take the result that you have rolled or to ask you to re-roll.  In a situation where you roll too few dice, then you just roll the additional dice.  In a situation where you roll worse colour dice, then you should re-roll with the correct colour dice. It is basically your responsibility to roll the correct dice.

This is a good approach IMO. One I'd certainly suggest in future if umpiring.

Quote from: AntiokosIII on December 16, 2019, 05:10:15 PM
Re. #2; we understood this to be the case. I plainly failed to explain the situation adequately.

          B     
    AAAB

Unit B is flanking unit A. Unit A routs. In a normal turn, Unit A would turn based upon the corner stand that was the new front (in this case, the stand furthest from B). This means the rout would be measured from there, and not from the stands in contact with B. This seems odd, since it 'breaks contact' with B. On the other hand, this IS the way we do turns in MeG. Can you see our confusion?

Back on #1, we assumed that no charge or melee should be fought, that the new target could not turn to face in the ensuing movement phase, but that a third unit could move up and charge the pursuers in flank while they were hitting the new target in flank on the ensuing turn. All correct?

Re #2:  Turn and move as normal.  It may look odd, but it is not unreasonable...  Don't get hit in the flank!
Re #1:  Yes, the pursuers may get charged on the ensuing turn.

Richard

Quote3 There s no rule.  But what I do is: a) if wrong soured rolled have to reroll, b) if you few rolled just add one, c) if you many rolled uses dice to randomise which now(s) were not real. SO Iw Ould have rolled a d6 and on a 4 you would have lost the original wound. 1-3 lost a blank.  5/6 reroll until you get 1-4..  That way you cannot improve on a mistaken dice roll with too many dice.  Only make it worse.

I could put this in the rules if it would help.

S

Quote from: Simon Meg-Meister on December 17, 2019, 09:33:45 AM

I could put this in the rules if it would help.

S

Personally I don't think it would.  It makes the game to "lawyerish".  It is etiquette, not rules.

Richard

I concur FWIW.

Quote from: Simon Meg-Meister on December 17, 2019, 09:33:45 AM

Quote3 There s no rule.  But what I do is: a) if wrong soured rolled have to reroll, b) if you few rolled just add one, c) if you many rolled uses dice to randomise which now(s) were not real. SO Iw Ould have rolled a d6 and on a 4 you would have lost the original wound. 1-3 lost a blank.  5/6 reroll until you get 1-4..  That way you cannot improve on a mistaken dice roll with too many dice.  Only make it worse.

I could put this in the rules if it would help.

S

I don't think a rule is needed. What was required was a bit of good sense on my part, which was sadly lacking.

Speaking of which, thanks for all the prompt and helpful responses! I have become spoiled.

i agree no rule, best way is to reroll...

Hi,

I thought the rules say that you roll dice per file in the shooting phase??
so if you roll dice file per file you only roll the right number of dice and if roll one more than allowed, you can erase the last roll.

that said, I 'm not umpiring

PUNCH