Quote from: daveparish on November 22, 2019, 11:25:14 AM
There seem to be lots of variants including just flaming rags attached to the oxens tails and even flaming rags attached to chickens - but there seems to be  definite evidence for my exploding cow interpretation.

Now that's a conversion challenge! 

Quote from: RocketSix on November 22, 2019, 04:37:57 PM

Yeah I found that picture too. Following the link it seems to be a Ming era drawing. It seems that this ploy is mentioned quite often in Chinese military texts over the years (bit like the Byzantine texts - they all copied the older versions then added their own bits). This is the version with blades and spears and a firebrand on the tail. Apparently the Ming kept all these ideas and just added a bomb. 

With all this historical fun I have lost focus on the game question and maybe other people have too, so I'll try and summarise:

a) In 2019 Thunder bomb oxen were Battle Chariots (Poor, Combat Shy Expendable etc). They were very ineffective - the best I ever did was two wounds before dying, the dream of somehow getting a string of Shatters never happens in reality on the table top

b) In 2020 Battle Chariot disappears as a classification and so they become Devastating Charger Cavalry  (Poor, Combat Shy, Expendable etc). This is two factors worse than in 2019 (or one factor worse if you go two deep ... which seems historically wrong, adds only one factor to one file and gives up a file, so less chance of a Shatter and can only be done in one file because it is a unit of three)

c) I'm suggesting restoring them to their 2019 level (perhaps by removing the Combat Shy and Poor classifications)

d) Lots of fun historical evidence emerged

No intention to change.  The Poor/Combat Shy makes them cheaper.  They still have a (low) chance of causing Skulls.

Richard

OK - but I think they have gone from a low chance to no chance (literally no chance because if they start on -2 they can't get up to green even with a Shatter).

You have answered the question though - in MeG an exploding cow is now exactly as scary as a normal cow

If the cow are supposed to explose:
1- I don't picture how they could survive even if winning the combat and routing the opponent
2- I don't picture how the opponent will be sheltered from the explosion if the oxen reach the target.
I m not sure the expandable in that case should work as per what is done with other expandable (hostages, chariots...)

There are an awful lot of one-off gimmicks covered together in MeG (and almost all Ancient rules) as Expendables. For example how do scythed chariots fight if the drivers bale out before contact, how do you stop a stampeding elephant etc. What they have in common is that they weren't used very often - if they were they would be modelled as a mainstream troop type. That suggests they weren't very effective - and so shouldn't be very effective on the tabletop.
I like oddities in my armies so I was arguing that this troop type should not be downgraded but should stay effective enough to be fun - but I quite understand if Richard wants to err on the side of caution and make sure gimmicks aren't too powerful.

In answer to your questions:-

1. They didn't
2. They wouldn't be
3. That's true but in fact almost every type of expendable could justify some sort of special rule - which would make the MeG ruleset very long