Quote from: tarnowski1 on October 28, 2025, 07:04:09 PMSo are you saying you have no problems with average, unprotected, kiels but five superior, unprotected kiels is too much? and so should be made practically impossible?

If average keils aren't a problem then why are they too cheap? I repeat we do not see massed average keils being used with much success, despite them having the same mechanism as superior versions. Nor do we see superior, protected Swiss kielsbhaving much success.

I agree. I have seen only one Late Swiss army (mine) ever win a tournament in Australia and I will be the first to admit that I was extremely lucky both in my match-ups and in my dice rolling. Of course the Swiss are a tough proposition for melee cavalry (as they should be) but I notice no one is complaining that keils are too effective against Mamluks or the like!

Quote from: tarnowski1 on October 28, 2025, 07:04:09 PMSo are you saying you have no problems with average, unprotected, kiels but five superior, unprotected kiels is too much? and so should be made practically impossible?

If average keils aren't a problem then why are they too cheap? I repeat we do not see massed average keils being used with much success, despite them having the same mechanism as superior versions. Nor do we see superior, protected Swiss kielsbhaving much success.

I am not saying anything of the sort.
I am saying that Keil as a characteristic may be too cheap, specifically when the 2026 amendments are applied.  If it was increased from 5 to 20 points, a 10000 point Late Swiss army could still have five keils, it is just that two of them would have to be average rather than Superior.

To stress, I am not proposing changing anything before 2027 - but will be examining.