QuoteI would also like to see a rule so that you cannot declare a charge in a direction such that the wheel would reduce the number of files that would make contact with the enemy (compared to charging directly ahead). The intention would be to stop wheels to ensure reduce the number of files that make contact (normally because an UG is at a disadvantage in the charge phase). This would need to be thought through though.

Maybe this could be done by obligating the charger to maximize the number of contacts their unit makes. This would allow them to wheel to contact multiple units while avoiding the game-ism of wheeling to minimize a disadvantageous charge.

Would it be as simple as only allowing wheels during a charge which increase the amount of files in contact?

In this way, if you've managed to line up a direct charge AND your opponent can't alter with a countercharge then you can be rewarded with the favourable #of files engaged.
BUT, if you're pulling some 70degree wheel to make sure only 1 file hits that would be a hard no from the rule.

This could be taken a step further and require if a wheel is used, that it shall be used to maximise files in contact within the limitations of movement and other TuGs.

Quote from: Hayung_is on January 14, 2025, 02:35:40 PM
Would it be as simple as only allowing wheels during a charge which increase the amount of files in contact?

In this way, if you've managed to line up a direct charge AND your opponent can't alter with a countercharge then you can be rewarded with the favourable #of files engaged.
BUT, if you're pulling some 70degree wheel to make sure only 1 file hits that would be a hard no from the rule.

This could be taken a step further and require if a wheel is used, that it shall be used to maximise files in contact within the limitations of movement and other TuGs.

This is a minefield for actual policing: if you wheel 1 or 2 degrees more or less you can follow up to get another base in, is prone to difficulties of measuring the 1 base width follow-up. It is fiddly and likely to generate lots of playing time friction and even umpire calls 

Quote from: steads on January 15, 2025, 09:27:41 AM

Quote from: Hayung_is on January 14, 2025, 02:35:40 PM
Would it be as simple as only allowing wheels during a charge which increase the amount of files in contact?

In this way, if you've managed to line up a direct charge AND your opponent can't alter with a countercharge then you can be rewarded with the favourable #of files engaged.
BUT, if you're pulling some 70degree wheel to make sure only 1 file hits that would be a hard no from the rule.

This could be taken a step further and require if a wheel is used, that it shall be used to maximise files in contact within the limitations of movement and other TuGs.

This is a minefield for actual policing: if you wheel 1 or 2 degrees more or less you can follow up to get another base in, is prone to difficulties of measuring the 1 base width follow-up. It is fiddly and likely to generate lots of playing time friction and even umpire calls 

I agree with Steads entirely. It would be nice to stop the 'minimum contact' charges, which are cheesy, ahistorical, and a bad thing, but getting clear language to stop it would be difficult.

Quote from: steads on January 15, 2025, 09:27:41 AM

Quote from: Hayung_is on January 14, 2025, 02:35:40 PM
Would it be as simple as only allowing wheels during a charge which increase the amount of files in contact?

In this way, if you've managed to line up a direct charge AND your opponent can't alter with a countercharge then you can be rewarded with the favourable #of files engaged.
BUT, if you're pulling some 70degree wheel to make sure only 1 file hits that would be a hard no from the rule.

This could be taken a step further and require if a wheel is used, that it shall be used to maximise files in contact within the limitations of movement and other TuGs.

This is a minefield for actual policing: if you wheel 1 or 2 degrees more or less you can follow up to get another base in, is prone to difficulties of measuring the 1 base width follow-up. It is fiddly and likely to generate lots of playing time friction and even umpire calls 

To clarify further if it helps - in my suggestion wheeling is always at the discretion of the player. So they may choose to charge direct and the rules would not require a wheel. The player would also still have control over how much to wheel provided they met one simple proviso - the wheel increased the number of files in combat. Ie. from 0 to 1, or 1 to 2 etc.

The rule would then simply be: A wheel during a charge may only be used to increase (compared to a direct forward move) the number of files in combat.

Players might still be able to achieve charges which minimise contact, but in general it should be much more difficult and preventable by the opponent, rather than the current situation where you can be in front and aligned and simple wheeling oblique can cause only 1 file to contact.

I think you should be able to wheel if the bases in contact is the same. It's only reducing the contacts that is cheesy.

Also you should probably be able to wheel to charge a different UG, even if this results in fewer contacts than charging straight ahead.

the thing is, and i have done this, wheeling to avoid some shooter bases or to avoid a bad first contact example white on green, hoping to survive for a  better melee phase. it is indeed cheezy example green on white.

a solution would be : no wheeling during charges or only a white move allowed (whitout playing a card).

so during the move phase, prepare for the charge, position well in view of the next charge phase.

it is not ideal, sometimes in rules  a charge is seen as a continuation of the move.

but then, somehow preparing for a chrge directly ahead by wheelin during moves, and not during charges, could replace it.

Quote from: Jilu on January 16, 2025, 05:07:24 PM
the thing is, and i have done this, wheeling to avoid some shooter bases or to avoid a bad first contact example white on green, hoping to survive for a  better melee phase. it is indeed cheezy example green on white.

a solution would be : no wheeling during charges or only a white move allowed (whitout playing a card).

so during the move phase, prepare for the charge, position well in view of the next charge phase.

it is not ideal, sometimes in rules  a charge is seen as a continuation of the move.

but then, somehow preparing for a chrge directly ahead by wheelin during moves, and not during charges, could replace it.

Would make life very difficult for tribal troops that need a good card to wheel. They'd hardly ever get a decent charge in.

I still wonder where the problem is ? and if the solution would not cause other problems