Hi All

As I play Cyrenean Greek and use the Dismountable rule in tournaments can I ask?

Why was the special rule about the Long spears only used on the Cyrenean Greek and none of the other lists that have Long spear, shield cover, dismountable foot??

Regards
John

John,

I believe the change was applied to all armies with Long Spear dismountable foot including Khazar foot guard and Varangians.  Are there others that I have missed?

Richard

Hi Richard

Bahrain Qarmatian (list 3115) is the first that comes to mind.

Would it not be better make a change in the wording of dismountable 'no use of weapons' or 'no ue of impact weapons' for foot using dismountable ?

Regards
John

I think the point is not that dismountable infantry cannot fight or cannot use weapons but that they cannot fight as a coordinated formation, 2 rank deep and so LS is of no use as it needs 2 rank deep for an impact or melee factor


From the reading they still count as foot standing to receive so still cancel CL or DC factors ( correct ? )

I will try to answer my own question

the phrasing being : They cannot claim the Long Spear when mounted. ( Cyrenean greeks, khazar, varanguians, scottish and I suppose barhain )

So I suppose they cannot cancel a CL, nor a DC who will have the full benefit of the charge

Quote from: badhabum on December 30, 2024, 03:43:42 PM
I will try to answer my own question

the phrasing being : They cannot claim the Long Spear when mounted. ( Cyrenean greeks, khazar, varanguians, scottish and I suppose barhain )

So I suppose they cannot cancel a CL, nor a DC who will have the full benefit of the charge

going to disagree and say they do cancel as that is cancelling the claim of the enemy base not a claim by the Long Spear base. IIRC It was also RJC's original intent as outlined in the thread where he discussed the proposed change, though I cant find the damn thing right now edit- https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3581.0

They cannot claim Long Spear when mounted means they DO NOT GET LONG SPEAR when mounted (perhaps shouldn't have used the word claim).  They are as if they have no weapon at all when mounted.  SO DO NOT CANCEL CL or DC.

Richard

Quote from: lionheartrjc on December 30, 2024, 07:12:29 PM
They cannot claim Long Spear when mounted means they DO NOT GET LONG SPEAR when mounted (perhaps shouldn't have used the word claim).  They are as if they have no weapon at all when mounted.  SO DO NOT CANCEL CL or DC.

Richard

fair enough though that contradicts your original comments

[attachment deleted by admin]

It'd just be easier to remove Dismountable as a characteristic for foot - has no real place in the battles MeG represents anyway IMO.

Is it not the same as permiting the dismountable 2hc foot

they needed 2 hands to use the weapon (as the name says) so how could they use it while mounted ?

lists (5401 for example)

Quote from: jfas on December 31, 2024, 08:11:10 AM
Is it not the same as permiting the dismountable 2hc foot

they needed 2 hands to use the weapon (as the name says) so how could they use it while mounted ?

lists (5401 for example)

Wouldn't disagree.  As Nik has indicated, I think dismountable infantry has no real place in the battles MeG represents.  The only feature I think is creditable is to treat mounted infantry as cavalry/camelry/chariots for flank marches.

Richard

Quote from: jfas on December 31, 2024, 08:11:10 AM
Is it not the same as permiting the dismountable 2hc foot

they needed 2 hands to use the weapon (as the name says) so how could they use it while mounted ?

lists (5401 for example)

I know it is frustrating as LS are a special case needing 2 rank deep to have their bonus but I think you must not see a dismountable TUG fighting "mounted" but more lacking time to reorganise if having to dismount to fight. So they fight on foot but not as a "formed unit" . Anyway This has the merit of launching a discussion on dismountable

Quote from: lionheartrjc on December 31, 2024, 12:11:17 PM

Quote from: jfas on December 31, 2024, 08:11:10 AM
Is it not the same as permiting the dismountable 2hc foot

they needed 2 hands to use the weapon (as the name says) so how could they use it while mounted ?

lists (5401 for example)

Wouldn't disagree.  As Nik has indicated, I think dismountable infantry has no real place in the battles MeG represents.  The only feature I think is creditable is to treat mounted infantry as cavalry/camelry/chariots for flank marches.

Richard

I would agree and point pout another nice use of dismountable infantry : english powerbow, dismountable . They can move up to 10 MU and shoot from there at 5 MU ...they can fall back as mounted ..awesome killers some being drilled, skilled and ME  and some even have stakes they can carry at cavalry speed 

Nice shooty platform that if drilled could double move first move 5, stop at shooting range and use the stakes if drilled costly but efficient indeed

Quote from: badhabum on December 31, 2024, 12:52:23 PM
I would agree and point pout another nice use of dismountable infantry : english powerbow, dismountable . They can move up to 10 MU and shoot from there at 5 MU ...they can fall back as mounted ..awesome killers some being drilled, skilled and ME  and some even have stakes they can carry at cavalry speed 

Nice shooty platform that if drilled could double move first move 5, stop at shooting range and use the stakes if drilled costly but efficient indeed

I would feel less sick after a cup of Tovarich Vladimir Special Polonium Tea than after realizing this.

Quote from: badhabum on December 31, 2024, 12:52:23 PM

Quote from: lionheartrjc on December 31, 2024, 12:11:17 PM

Quote from: jfas on December 31, 2024, 08:11:10 AM
Is it not the same as permiting the dismountable 2hc foot

they needed 2 hands to use the weapon (as the name says) so how could they use it while mounted ?

lists (5401 for example)

Wouldn't disagree.  As Nik has indicated, I think dismountable infantry has no real place in the battles MeG represents.  The only feature I think is creditable is to treat mounted infantry as cavalry/camelry/chariots for flank marches.

Richard

I would agree and point pout another nice use of dismountable infantry : english powerbow, dismountable . They can move up to 10 MU and shoot from there at 5 MU ...they can fall back as mounted ..awesome killers some being drilled, skilled and ME  and some even have stakes they can carry at cavalry speed 

Nice shooty platform that if drilled could double move first move 5, stop at shooting range and use the stakes if drilled costly but efficient indeed

except infantry while mounted cannot shoot.