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QuoteThe rules do not normally provide for a legendary general other than a C-in-C. Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands
Myrmidons.

So if one chooses Patrocles, even if he commands the Myrmidons you must give him his due : 4 chariots and 9 spearmen . Correct ?

Correct.

Quote from: nikgaukroger on February 09, 2023, 06:58:50 PM
An internal allied contingent has the following requirement (amongst others) "Each internal ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs."

The list note of "Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands Myrmidons." refers to troops that would normally be compulsory and not to the contingent size.

Wording is fine IMO unless one is approaching it to wilfully misread it and try to avoid the requirements.

Of course, if I am wrong about the contingent requirements then I'll agree the wording needs changing 

I feel I must point out that, if you are considering the wording from a technical writing of requirements or standards point of view (which is how MeG as a set of "rules" is written): then "each ally MUST have..." is a compulsory requirement and it is about UGs who are clearly troops.  Thus "does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops" means Achilles with Myrmidons and 0-3 other UGs is clearly what is meant.

I will also point out that my first ever game of MeG against an opponent was against Simon (rules author) and he kindly put together a list for me - Acheaean Greek (as I have a 28mm DBM army) - and it had Achillles in command of just the Myrmidons.  Now it is, of course, possible that Simon was not concerned with minor list details and more concerned with helping a new player understand the game... (and rules authors have been known to mis-remember their rules as they have so many versions in their heads).

I have since worked out my own list...and obviously I have assumed Achilles with Myrmidons must have 0-3 other UGs.

Quote from: Gavin on April 23, 2023, 12:11:52 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on February 09, 2023, 06:58:50 PM
An internal allied contingent has the following requirement (amongst others) "Each internal ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs."

The list note of "Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands Myrmidons." refers to troops that would normally be compulsory and not to the contingent size.

Wording is fine IMO unless one is approaching it to wilfully misread it and try to avoid the requirements.

Of course, if I am wrong about the contingent requirements then I'll agree the wording needs changing 

I feel I must point out that, if you are considering the wording from a technical writing of requirements or standards point of view (which is how MeG as a set of "rules" is written): then "each ally MUST have..." is a compulsory requirement and it is about UGs who are clearly troops.  Thus "does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops" means Achilles with Myrmidons and 0-3 other UGs is clearly what is meant.

I will also point out that my first ever game of MeG against an opponent was against Simon (rules author) and he kindly put together a list for me - Acheaean Greek (as I have a 28mm DBM army) - and it had Achillles in command of just the Myrmidons.  Now it is, of course, possible that Simon was not concerned with minor list details and more concerned with helping a new player understand the game... (and rules authors have been known to mis-remember their rules as they have so many versions in their heads).

I have since worked out my own list...and obviously I have assumed Achilles with Myrmidons must have 0-3 other UGs.

Hy I fear you mix two requirements or requirement 1 and requirement 2. Achilles has to submit to 1 and 3, but skip 2 . I hope I am being clear ( it's at the beginning of each army list book ):

Where allies are allowed, they must conform to the following rules:
1. An ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs.
2. They must take enough UGs to get them to at least 50% of the minimums in the list being used.
3. They can thereafter take any troops up to the maximum to create the rest of the allied contingent.

Quote from: badhabum on April 23, 2023, 07:44:40 PM

Quote from: Gavin on April 23, 2023, 12:11:52 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on February 09, 2023, 06:58:50 PM
An internal allied contingent has the following requirement (amongst others) "Each internal ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs."

The list note of "Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands Myrmidons." refers to troops that would normally be compulsory and not to the contingent size.

Wording is fine IMO unless one is approaching it to wilfully misread it and try to avoid the requirements.

Of course, if I am wrong about the contingent requirements then I'll agree the wording needs changing 

I feel I must point out that, if you are considering the wording from a technical writing of requirements or standards point of view (which is how MeG as a set of "rules" is written): then "each ally MUST have..." is a compulsory requirement and it is about UGs who are clearly troops.  Thus "does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops" means Achilles with Myrmidons and 0-3 other UGs is clearly what is meant.

I will also point out that my first ever game of MeG against an opponent was against Simon (rules author) and he kindly put together a list for me - Acheaean Greek (as I have a 28mm DBM army) - and it had Achillles in command of just the Myrmidons.  Now it is, of course, possible that Simon was not concerned with minor list details and more concerned with helping a new player understand the game... (and rules authors have been known to mis-remember their rules as they have so many versions in their heads).

I have since worked out my own list...and obviously I have assumed Achilles with Myrmidons must have 0-3 other UGs.

Hy I fear you mix two requirements or requirement 1 and requirement 2. Achilles has to submit to 1 and 3, but skip 2 . I hope I am being clear ( it's at the beginning of each army list book ):

Where allies are allowed, they must conform to the following rules:
1. An ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs.
2. They must take enough UGs to get them to at least 50% of the minimums in the list being used.
3. They can thereafter take any troops up to the maximum to create the rest of the allied contingent.

Agree there are 3 clear requirements at beginning of each army list book.  And a clear statement that Achilles is exempt from commanding compulsory troops  if he command Myrmidons.

Thus, if commanding Myrmidons, he is exempt from first part of  req 1 (I.e. from minimum) but not from second part (i.e. the maximum). And agree exempt from req 2.

So for once I agree with RJC 

The requirements for Achilles are 1 and 3 . Nowhere is it written he does not have to tommand 2 TUGS . It is only written that if he commands the myrmidons he is exempt from compulsory troops  . Compulsory troops are the requirement 2  as compulsory troops are "the minimums in the list being used" .

Compulsory is related to the list not the requirement for being a sub allied general. Achilles must have one + up to 4 UGS .