So our dear Achillles is an ally SUB and being legendary it would make history if he got unreliable 

Now he only has to take command of his dear myrmidons and MAY have some other TUGS,  also max 4 tugs in total. If he takes more units under his command MUST he follow the way of other internal allied generals and take TUGS from the main list so here a TUG of chariotry and a big tUG of spearmen ?


the rules says :

QuoteThe rules do not normally provide for a legendary general other than a C-in-C. Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands Myrmidons.

Fixed.

Sorry where ?

Methinks your edit has changed the question - it happens

It is what it says - if A commands the Myrmidons he is not required to command troops that would normally be compulsory.

If A does not take Myrmidons he would be constrained by the usual rules for allied contingents.

Ok he does not have to take the sub units but still he is an ally


My meaning is : I buy A and his myrmidons .

Now I want to give him some TUGS to make his command bigger . He may choose freely in the list but still it must be allowed to him under his command in the list before the games and so it is set for the tournament. He may not go shopping different UGs for each game as if a regular instinctive sub general.

It must be defined once and for all for the whole tournament

I try to be clear

Yes, the whole issue seems to be: can he be anything other than an internal ally who is bound to always take the same allied troops, or can he be a normal sub, and hence be free to switch tugs between games?

He is listed as a internal ally general - how can he be a sub-general?

If you take the internal ally as Patroclus you cannot have Achilles as the ally has to be one or the other.

As an ally the contingent is fixed.

Is this correct :
So Achean Trojan war  list 1215: Achiles is a legendary ALLY sub general ( 700 points if you ask ) . If he takes the Myrmidons and want to have more TUGs under his command he does not have to follow the usual procedure and buy TUGS following the minima so he does not have to take 4 chariots and 9 spearmen in addition to the ones that Agamemnon must take. BUT he is still an ally. So if you want to give him more TUGs to command you must buy TUGS/SUGS above the minima already bought for Agamemnon and put them under his separate ALLY command and that is fixed for the whole tournament. The difference with usual allies is that you have a wide choice to pick from if the myridons are taken as you do not have to take spearmen or chariots .

Achilles is a legendary ally general.  If he takes the Myrmidions then he commands 1-3 other TuGs from the list (other than Pylians) and does not have to take chariots or spearmen.
If he doesn't take the Myrmidions then he will have to take at least 4 chariots and 9 spearmen.

Richard

Quote from: lionheartrjc on February 08, 2023, 12:13:50 PM
Achilles is a legendary ally general.  If he takes the Myrmidions then he commands 1-3 other TuGs from the list (other than Pylians) and does not have to take chariots or spearmen.
If he doesn't take the Myrmidions then he will have to take at least 4 chariots and 9 spearmen.

Richard

1-3 others, or 0-3 others?

Perhaps the above would be an improvement on the wording in the list book.

An internal allied contingent has the following requirement (amongst others) "Each internal ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs."

The list note of "Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands Myrmidons." refers to troops that would normally be compulsory and not to the contingent size.

Wording is fine IMO unless one is approaching it to wilfully misread it and try to avoid the requirements.

Of course, if I am wrong about the contingent requirements then I'll agree the wording needs changing 

Quote from: nikgaukroger on February 09, 2023, 06:58:50 PM
An internal allied contingent has the following requirement (amongst others) "Each internal ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs."

The list note of "Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands Myrmidons." refers to troops that would normally be compulsory and not to the contingent size.

Wording is fine IMO unless one is approaching it to wilfully misread it and try to avoid the requirements.

Of course, if I am wrong about the contingent requirements then I'll agree the wording needs changing 

So if I read you correctly ACHILLES must still have 2 UGS under his command so at minima the myrmidons + 1 other UG

Can you please confirm ( we have 2 players testing their armies on sunday so yes we would like the answer )

Quote from: nikgaukroger on February 09, 2023, 06:58:50 PM
An internal allied contingent has the following requirement (amongst others) "Each internal ally must be a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 UGs."

The list note of "Achilles does not have to include otherwise compulsory troops in his contingent if he commands Myrmidons." refers to troops that would normally be compulsory and not to the contingent size.

Wording is fine IMO unless one is approaching it to wilfully misread it and try to avoid the requirements.

Of course, if I am wrong about the contingent requirements then I'll agree the wording needs changing 

Well, if it's compulsory to have a 2nd UG, then they are compulsory troops aren't they?

Either way, the wording in the book generated this list query, while the wording in RJC's post solved the query. Also I suggest that wording that cannot be wilfully misread to try to avoid requirements would be an improvement over wording that can.

Quote from: LawrenceG on February 09, 2023, 11:00:53 PM
Well, if it's compulsory to have a 2nd UG, then they are compulsory troops aren't they?

I think you need to think that through again 

Richard's wording is fine and as he is kinder than me towards those wilfully misreading things he may well use it in an update 

Dear Nik and RJC

Outside of your isolated UK there are players who are not native English speakers and some with very very basic English.

Traduttore traditore

If we disagree between ourselves in Europe on how to interpret correctly what you have written it's because when translating there are some disagreements and because when you write something ( the rules ) you have the idea and know what you mean but the guy who reads you understand something slightly different and add now the translation problem .

Players want your input, a polite input and may ask for more details because sometimes for some people it is a bit difficult to grasp it correctly and sometimes do not want to understand if it's not in their favour

So please be patient or come and visit France, Belgium and Greece to have contact and explain all those things. It's been years now and I understand BREXIT did not help but if you cannot come, please be polite and patient as we have to explain it all to some people .