I'm curious why the TuG a SuG rule was formulated in such a way that TuG B can tug SuG A but not SuG C.

One for Simon H to answer.

Is this question why can't both SUGs be 'tugged' simultaneously because I would have thought SUG C could be tugged?

SUG C cannot be TUGged as, due to the angle when measuring, not all of the bases will be "entirely within" 3 BW - bottom right hand corner of C will be just out.

I suspect that i cases like that illustrated people often don't actually measure and just move the SUG.

True enough and I am one of those guilty parties along with, I think, all the other players I have played. At least no one has ever picked me up on it😊. That said, it's not a huge mistake. Thanks for the explanation.

Quote from: nikgaukroger on January 24, 2023, 05:52:38 AM
SUG C cannot be TUGged as, due to the angle when measuring, not all of the bases will be "entirely within" 3 BW - bottom right hand corner of C will be just out.

I suspect that i cases like that illustrated people often don't actually measure and just move the SUG.

It does mean that a 9-base SUG cannot be TUGged alongside anything less than 3 base-deep foot unless they stick out in front by a base depth. Seems a little fiddly.

Quote from: steads on January 24, 2023, 03:33:21 PM
It does mean that a 9-base SUG cannot be TUGged alongside anything less than 3 base-deep foot unless they stick out in front by a base depth. Seems a little fiddly.

No, it means that a 9-base SUG can't be TuGged alongside anything that they stick out in front of or behind.

Probably a case of rule writing that has ended with unintended consequences?
Lance.

I agree. While it's Simon's call, the literal interpretation appears not to meet the intent. After all, the rule explicitly says partial edge contact rather than edge and corner contact.

Quote from: LawrenceG on January 24, 2023, 04:59:06 PM

Quote from: steads on January 24, 2023, 03:33:21 PM
It does mean that a 9-base SUG cannot be TUGged alongside anything less than 3 base-deep foot unless they stick out in front by a base depth. Seems a little fiddly.

No, it means that a 9-base SUG can't be TuGged alongside anything that they stick out in front of or behind.

So true 

In this image the sug belongs to the foot. The foot is facing up.
The furthest point of the sug is wholly within 3bw of the foot tug.
It is facing the same way as the foot.
It is in at least partial edge contact.
This is about as far a legal move can get from its pushing tug.
By definition if a 3x3 is side pulling a 3x3 sug they would have to be lined up exactly.
This would also mean a 2x2 tug could never side pull a 3x3 sug as part of the sug would always be a gnats outside 3bw to the edge.
However, all of these problems disappear with a white card to move the sug on its own.

Quote from: SteveO on January 24, 2023, 10:09:16 PM
I agree. While it's Simon's call, the literal interpretation appears not to meet the intent. After all, the rule explicitly says partial edge contact rather than edge and corner contact.

The difficulty of writing something and expressing the intend. A referee will have no other choice but to rule in favour of the strict application of the rule.

I am unclear why there is an assumption that the rule as written isn't what is intended.  It does mean that you have to be careful if you intend to TuG a 9 element SuG.

Richard

Quote from: lionheartrjc on January 30, 2023, 10:56:10 AM
I am unclear why there is an assumption that the rule as written isn't what is intended.  It does mean that you have to be careful if you intend to TuG a 9 element SuG.

Richard

The original question was about the reason behind intending it that way.

Quote from: LawrenceG on January 30, 2023, 11:15:34 AM

The original question was about the reason behind intending it that way.

Clearly the aim of the rule was to avoid more extreme examples: moves such as a 9 element SuG being 9 wide, 1 deep and with only one base in contact with the TuG. 

If a 3x3SuG next to a TuG is intended to be permitted it should perhaps insist that the bases are entirely less than 4 BW from the TuG rather than within 3BW.

Richard