Seeking clarity on dates for the "warriors with Roman Training and Equipment".

The Gothic list states 'After the victory at Adrianople in 378CE, the Goths were settled by treaty and provided recruits for Roman regular units'; however there is no early date for these troops. The list states that 'warriors with Roman Training and Equipment' may be used at any (time) except the army of Radagaisus (401-407CE); which  seems to permit them from 377-401CE.  However, this line is after the options for Alaric (395-407CE); so am wondering if these warriors are 'included in the Alaric options, which would limit their use to 395-407CE. Can this be clarified please.

Also they should not be permitted after Adrianople, eg 379CE.

The warriors with Roman training and equipment are allowed at any date - except for Radagaisus of course - not just for Alaric.

In the initial stages of the Gothic revolt they were capturing and using Roman equipment and being joined by deserters from the Roman army including Gothic troops under Suerdias and Colias - the two names suggests two units presumably based around the followers of two important Goths. Kit would have been collected after each battle - presumably quite a lot after Adrianople - and the classification also recognises the performance of the Goths.

There is no link to the Gothic settlements after Adrianople per se, however, as Alaric was twice appointed Magister Militum (once by the east and once by the west) he would have had due access to Roman resources to equip his army, so again Roman kit is suitable.

You could certainly argue that the list should have a gap in it between 382 CE (Theodosius' Gothic settlement) and 395 CE when Alaric revolted.

There is also an argument for separate options/sub-list for the initial stages of the revolt in 376 CE when the Goths are very short of equipment.

Hi Nik - thanks for clarification   

Plenty of goths fighting for Theodosius at the frigidus in 394. Treat as allies though?

We have gone with the more recent interpretation that the Goths were recruited into Roman units rather than being allies.

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 13, 2022, 08:12:10 AM
We have gone with the more recent interpretation that the Goths were recruited into Roman units rather than being allies.

Although I'd also note that one source does mention him recruiting additional Goths from beyond the frontier, but these can probably be covered by the small number of Goths allowed to Eastern armies from 360 CE.

They do seem to have been all-Goth units, judging from the limited source accounts?

The eastern Roman army at the end of the C4th following the settlement of 382 CE was chock full of Goths. Indeed some units may well have been mainly, or even entirely, recruited from Goths. That doesn't prevent them from being regular Roman units.