In a recent game we had two different interpretations of displacing Skirmishers, so the question is can you displace skirmishers in the charge, providing the other criteria for displacement is met?

Displacement rule says "any movement with bases" can displace a SUG.

specifically in a charge phase you can displace skirmishers?

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 10:26:17 AM
Displacement rule says "any movement with bases" can displace a SUG.

If that is the case then what is the point of moving skirmishers out of the way before charges?

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 10:26:17 AM
Displacement rule says "any movement with bases" can displace a SUG.

So you tell us that during charge phase, it is not necessary to move a SUG out of the way of a charge as anyway you could displace a SUG to make room for the charge 

So if the way of the charge is "blocked" by a mounted SUG base, you might move it out of the way but then what is a valid charge path ?

Because you can only displace up to 1 BW, the 2.1 move provision allows a greater movement and also more options in how you move.

Quote from: Hammy on August 03, 2022, 12:16:39 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 10:26:17 AM
Displacement rule says "any movement with bases" can displace a SUG.

If that is the case then what is the point of moving skirmishers out of the way before charges?

I agree and second

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Because you can only displace up to 1 BW, the 2.1 move provision allows a greater movement and also more options in how you move.

But pg 119 stipulates 2 ways to avoid a friendly unit in the way of the charge and pushing a SUG out of the way is not part of it !

Where do you see that it is up to 1 BW as the rule pg 114 stipulates  "by the minimum necessary" which can be much more than 1 BW ..there is no limit

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Because you can only displace up to 1 BW, the 2.1 move provision allows a greater movement and also more options in how you move.

OK, so a foot SuG that is 1 BW away from an enemy line gets charged through by a 2 deep TuG of say long spear cataphracts then the SuG ends up being displaced back 1/2 BW and all is good?

If the charging cavalry are devastating chargers or lancers and are not ordered not to charge they burst through the skirmishers and kill them before they can displace??

Quote from: badhabum on August 03, 2022, 12:31:21 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Because you can only displace up to 1 BW, the 2.1 move provision allows a greater movement and also more options in how you move.

But pg 119 stipulates 2 ways to avoid a friendly unit in the way of the charge and pushing a SUG out of the way is not part of it !

Where do you see that it is up to 1 BW as the rule pg 114 stipulates  "by the minimum necessary" which can be much more than 1 BW ..there is no limit

Its in the f-ing clarries - "•   DISPLACING SUGs Page 114 K 1 should read "... displaced by the minimum necessary up to a maximum of 1BW ..." to be thereby consistent with Page 80 Universal Rule 16."

As for Pg 119 that tells you options for the charging unit, there is no reason that the displacement rule does not also apply IMO as it is a universal rule that applies at "any" time, although it may have been useful to mention it there as well 

Quote from: Hammy on August 03, 2022, 12:32:10 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Because you can only displace up to 1 BW, the 2.1 move provision allows a greater movement and also more options in how you move.

OK, so a foot SuG that is 1 BW away from an enemy line gets charged through by a 2 deep TuG of say long spear cataphracts then the SuG ends up being displaced back 1/2 BW and all is good?

If the charging cavalry are devastating chargers or lancers and are not ordered not to charge they burst through the skirmishers and kill them before they can displace??

I would say that such a displacement hasn't really allowed the move as the charger still has to make an illegal interpenetration so cannot be made and if the chargers are forced charging then the usual penalties apply.

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:43:27 PM

Quote from: Hammy on August 03, 2022, 12:32:10 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Because you can only displace up to 1 BW, the 2.1 move provision allows a greater movement and also more options in how you move.

OK, so a foot SuG that is 1 BW away from an enemy line gets charged through by a 2 deep TuG of say long spear cataphracts then the SuG ends up being displaced back 1/2 BW and all is good?

If the charging cavalry are devastating chargers or lancers and are not ordered not to charge they burst through the skirmishers and kill them before they can displace??

I would say that such a displacement hasn't really allowed the move as the charger still has to make an illegal interpenetration so cannot be made and if the chargers are forced charging then the usual penalties apply.

Fair enough.
So if a charge needs to displace a SuG upto 1 BW sideways it can do so but you cannot pass through as it is an illegal interpenetration? That makes sense to me.

Overall as I see it you could potentially displace a SUG 1 BW, make a 1/2 BW shift and contract by 1 file to get a charge in 

👍

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:41:01 PM

Quote from: badhabum on August 03, 2022, 12:31:21 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 03, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Because you can only displace up to 1 BW, the 2.1 move provision allows a greater movement and also more options in how you move.

But pg 119 stipulates 2 ways to avoid a friendly unit in the way of the charge and pushing a SUG out of the way is not part of it !

Where do you see that it is up to 1 BW as the rule pg 114 stipulates  "by the minimum necessary" which can be much more than 1 BW ..there is no limit

Its in the f-ing clarries - "•   DISPLACING SUGs Page 114 K 1 should read "... displaced by the minimum necessary up to a maximum of 1BW ..." to be thereby consistent with Page 80 Universal Rule 16."

As for Pg 119 that tells you options for the charging unit, there is no reason that the displacement rule does not also apply IMO as it is a universal rule that applies at "any" time, although it may have been useful to mention it there as well 

Oh yes the clarries ...sorry but a PDF version for the rules, a version which could be updated regularly and downloaded regularly might also solve this clarries problem