It's now been 2 years since the big 2020 chariot changes. Without wanting to revisit old detailed discussions about this or indulge in 'I told you so's'  , its become pretty clear that the majority of the former battlechariots (ie exp Bw, shoot and charge, melee expert) are not in a happy place. They scarcely turn up in biblical theme comps, almost never turn up in opens and when we do see them they are the unusually classified 5 Hegemons version.

Clearly there is no appetite for major rules changes like the return of the battlechariot classification and I'm not sure points can easily help without effecting a broad range of other troops (mounted melee expert could, perhaps, be cheaper)  but I wonder if it could be time to look at their classification in lists?

I would suggest the obvious possibility is to make melee expert optional. There is no compelling historical reason for them to have it and while some players may plan lists to include it an option is always stronger than a 'must have'. May not help much but better than nothing. Perhaps a more generous approach with shortspear capability would help as well.

I would also change the Chinese lists so that no chariot has both polearm and melee expert. frankly I find it hard to understand why this anomalous classification has lasted so long. The MeG lists generally (and quite rightly) tend to take an extremely dim view of multiple weapon categories in the melee phase (especially combined with superiority). For this classification to make sense there would have to be some specific evidence of truly extraordinary melee capability on the part of these chariots. There is not, but for some reason we still have 24 bases of chariots with what amounts to 3 melee factors (a sort of large, mounted Caesar's Xth Legion!)

Martin

QuoteI would also change the Chinese lists so that no chariot has both polearm and melee expert. frankly I find it hard to understand why this anomalous classification has lasted so long

I must admit it makes them very powerful, perhaps too powerful as it combines both weapon for a + 2 .

But I must also admit that those chinese stuff is pretty unkopwn to me so difficult to give an assesment except on Well in MEG they are really tough

Quote from: badhabum on January 31, 2022, 07:50:30 PM

QuoteI would also change the Chinese lists so that no chariot has both polearm and melee expert. frankly I find it hard to understand why this anomalous classification has lasted so long

I must admit it makes them very powerful, perhaps too powerful as it combines both weapon for a + 2 .

But I must also admit that those chinese stuff is pretty unkopwn to me so difficult to give an assesment except on Well in MEG they are really tough

It is a strange classification. It should go but I'm more concerned about my first point on the impact on the playability of the main 'type' of 4 horse 3 crew chariots in general. While removing 'Battlechariot' was primarily a change motivated by History it was suggested it would be a good thing for them 'in game' and if it turned out it wasn't it would be tweaked/revisited. That's where I think we now are.

Martin

QuoteWhile removing 'Battlechariot' was primarily a change motivated by History it was suggested it would be a good thing for them 'in game' and if it turned out it wasn't it would be tweaked/revisited. That's where I think we now are.

Too much historicity might kill the game as a game .

Playing should be fun even if historicity has to be  "tweaked"

Of course we could always just stick to the status quo of these guys barely existing in competitive MeG. Seems a bit of a shame though.

Martin

Well the 5 hegemon are quite strongh but I can live with it .