Quote from: nikgaukroger on September 08, 2021, 08:54:45 PM
For completeness it is worth noting that per page 151 that a base that can provide rank benefits has the choice to be used for rank support or to fight to flank/rear. Although presumably if not choosing to fight to flank they would not count as if turned and so the enemy would get their full claims including the flank attack.

That might need to be clarified as it makes a difference : flank attack or not ..

Actually, I think it is blindingly obvious that if you are not fighting to the flank you do not count as having turned due to the wording.

I was unnecessarily cautious with what I wrote 

As a Swiss player, I agree - I do not think further explanation is required.

They fight as if turned so do not need to turn but what if they already fight frontally ?

To me, poor foreigner not english native speaker, fight is fight...

They do not need to turn to fight but what if they do not fight to the flank and already fight( is engaged ) to the front ? That is my question as a file cannot fight twice in 2 directions ?

A) Do we consider for factors computing only that one of the bases , the one attacked is "facing" the attacker and so we compute the odds ( dice colours )

B ) the keil makes a choice between front and flank ?

If contacted on more than one edge, you fight once for each contact.  The file can only roll the dice to inflict damage once.  So the owning player will choose whether to fight on a particular edge or not.  The risk is that if you choose not to fight and your base is removed, you don't get to fight.

This is different from when two files are in contact with the same edge of your file.  In that situation the owning player chooses which of the files will fight (the other might be a supporting file).

Richard

Thank you

From the Characteristics PDF it should be:

Quote
TuGs with keil characteristic are adept at protecting and fighting to flank when in large formations - Swiss and Landsknechts being the primary exponents in this period.
1. A keil must begin as 8 or 12 bases as specified in their army lists and must be 2 files wide if an initial 8 ,or 2 or 3 files wide if an initial 12.
2. A keil fight better to its flanks than other TuGs. Bases fight to flank as if they were turned to face, but only 1 rank deep (therefore gaining no rank factors but negating any +s to the enemy for a flank charge or flank melee).
3. Rear charges, however, are just as devastating against keil as other troops.

Question : Who is permitted to use keils in blocks of 8 bases - the army lists specify 12 bases for units with keil characteristic. 

At present all lists specifying Keil specify TuGs of 12.  However the characteristic gives us flexibility if we want to change that in future.

Richard

As a complete novice I am having difficulty with the definition of a rear charge. P121 to p123 gives lots of diagrams and helpful words that explain a flank charge but I can see nothing on what constitutes a rear charge.  I am guessing it cannot be as simple as reversing the direction the troops receiving and front becomes rear as that would make a lot of 'flank' charges rear charges (where the charger fails to fulfil some of the requirements the default is front not flank).

If I try to envisage the requirements for a flank charge and twist them by 90 degrees then the concept of 'Flank Protection' looms large (and confusing).

I would guess it might be if all the chargers start behind a line drawn across the rear of the keil it would count but what if the rear rank of the keil is made up of files of different depths?

HELP.

Mike

Quote from: Mike Klaka on September 17, 2021, 05:39:57 PM
As a complete novice I am having difficulty with the definition of a rear charge. P121 to p123 gives lots of diagrams and helpful words that explain a flank charge but I can see nothing on what constitutes a rear charge.  I am guessing it cannot be as simple as reversing the direction the troops receiving and front becomes rear as that would make a lot of 'flank' charges rear charges (where the charger fails to fulfil some of the requirements the default is front not flank).

If I try to envisage the requirements for a flank charge and twist them by 90 degrees then the concept of 'Flank Protection' looms large (and confusing).

I would guess it might be if all the chargers start behind a line drawn across the rear of the keil it would count but what if the rear rank of the keil is made up of files of different depths?

HELP.

Mike

as per a flank charge but the base hits the rear of the enemy base before the flank. As far as I am aware that is the only criteria. A Keil is just about the only time it becomes relevant