A unit is in ORB, 6 bases, 2 ranks , rank A and ran K

AAA
BBB

It is being attacked by X and by Y

XXX
AAA
BBB
YYY

The orb loses one base and so we have

XXX
A A
BBB
YYY

Can the middle X base charge the rear of the middle B base that faces Y ?

Yes it can, but note that an Orb has no flank or rear, so any subsequent combat against the enemy would be treated as a frontal combat.  Essentially the player attacking the orb has the choice of using the file in contact with the front or the file in contact with the rear of the element but in either case it is treated as a frontal combat.

Richard

So... you can fight with either X or Y vs. the middle base of B - but not both?? I would have thought that you get two fights against the base - the base only getting to roll 1 dice against one of them - and both fights counting as frontal.

Quote from: lionheartrjc on April 17, 2021, 06:21:44 AM
Yes it can, but note that an Orb has no flank or rear, so any subsequent combat against the enemy would be treated as a frontal combat.  Essentially the player attacking the orb has the choice of using the file in contact with the front or the file in contact with the rear of the element but in either case it is treated as a frontal combat.

Richard

Not sure that they can as they are in a position to be a Supporting File and so count as Engaged Bases (per Glossary) and the bit about charging files on page 119 talks about "other" bases as opposed to those blocked or already engaged in combat.

Quote from: nikgaukroger on April 17, 2021, 06:48:04 AM

Quote from: lionheartrjc on April 17, 2021, 06:21:44 AM
Yes it can, but note that an Orb has no flank or rear, so any subsequent combat against the enemy would be treated as a frontal combat.  Essentially the player attacking the orb has the choice of using the file in contact with the front or the file in contact with the rear of the element but in either case it is treated as a frontal combat.

Richard

Not sure that they can as they are in a position to be a Supporting File and so count as Engaged Bases (per Glossary) and the bit about charging files on page 119 talks about "other" bases as opposed to those blocked or already engaged in combat.

That might need some more explanation !

If a TUG is in ORB, there is no supporting file possible ( Orb definition )so if there is no supporting file, to me the file is "free" to charge !

Now the interesting point is  that even if it would be a "rear" charge from a visual point of view it is considered a frontal charge with only one base fighting afterwards even if contacted to the front and the rear which makes a roman ORB really a fearsome opponent ( impact weapon needs only one rank as do melee expert ) as you never break that orb unless the UG dies ..

And oRB is low cost ( 2 points for an average base )

Quote from: badhabum on April 17, 2021, 02:18:52 PM

Quote from: nikgaukroger on April 17, 2021, 06:48:04 AM

Quote from: lionheartrjc on April 17, 2021, 06:21:44 AM
Yes it can, but note that an Orb has no flank or rear, so any subsequent combat against the enemy would be treated as a frontal combat.  Essentially the player attacking the orb has the choice of using the file in contact with the front or the file in contact with the rear of the element but in either case it is treated as a frontal combat.

Richard

Not sure that they can as they are in a position to be a Supporting File and so count as Engaged Bases (per Glossary) and the bit about charging files on page 119 talks about "other" bases as opposed to those blocked or already engaged in combat.

That might need some more explanation !

If a TUG is in ORB, there is no supporting file possible ( Orb definition )so if there is no supporting file, to me the file is "free" to charge !

A good point that I had forgotten    So yes it can charge as Richard said, and indeed it could be a Forced Charge.

Good discussion - I learned a bit!

I'm still unclear how many combats you fight if you attack a single base from "multiple directions". Imagine a single (fanatic) orb base attacked in front, "rear", and "flanks" by 4 files. The orb base only gets to roll for one combat - but does their opponent get to roll for four combats (all counting as frontal) - or do they only get to roll for one (their choice) because you only ever get to fight a single frontal combat?

Doesn't E 1 at the top of page 141 cover this?

Quote from: nikgaukroger on April 17, 2021, 06:44:09 PM
Doesn't E 1 at the top of page 141 cover this?

yes and no, as the base has no rear, flank but only a front .;So I would say, it might be attacked 4 times but a player migh answer no ..it has only one front it is in an ORB .

As Lionheart answered :

QuoteEssentially the player attacking the orb has the choice of using the file in contact with the front or the file in contact with the rear of the element but in either case it is treated as a frontal combat.

I am not sure that "... but it has no flank or rear (so all fights are frontal) ..." means that a file cannot be fought on different edges.

In fact that it says "An orb fights 1-deep in all directions ..." could be taken that a base contacted on multiple edges fights to each edge.

Orb remains a bit of a murky area IMO, and has been in other rules as well 

QuoteOrb remains a bit of a murky area IMO, and has been in other rules as well 

hence the question