Hi there,
To pick up on another thread - how to classify these troops. So my thoughts simply put:

Instinctive Command
Very best mounted: Drilled Loose Superior Protected Lancer Devastating Charger Melee Expert
Riders raised to defend Rohan: Formed Loose Average Lancer optional Melee Expert for 50%
It might be that all these could have charge only bow as well and Dismountable?

Foot would be the peasants and town folk: Tribal Close Average Short Spear maybe 50% Shieldwall? Optional Integral Shooters.
Plus a very few foot skirmishers.

Remember though that a list in isolation is near worthless and its how they interact that is crucial. But this is a start! All ideas welcomed.

I agree that  the lists cannotbe considered in isolation. At Pelennor Fields,the Rohirrim beat opposing cavalry even where significantly  outnumbered.I would givet them all ME,given Simon's classification of Easterling and Southron cavalry.The Rohirrim should be a bit better in melee.I would also give them all DC for the same reason. Set to fight equal numbers of Haradrim,the Eorlingas should mostly win unless their dice totally go to hell.

I am not sure why folks think the Marshal's Eoreds should be Drilled. Idon't see it myself. What have I missed?

I can understand the urge to make Theoden's Royal Eored Exceptional. I am not certain it should be any different from the Eoreds of the Marshals. I suspect Superior is plenty good.

In the original 'Eye" lists Simon made Eomer an ally general. While Eomer was briefly in exile, I'm not happy with this classification. In battle, he was utterly loyal and completely reliable.

Hiya,
Well, Drilled for the very best/professional/retained riders partly for that reason but also because they could communicate in plain language with their mounts! Drilled offers them them the big advantage of tempting other mounted to charge them.

If Haradrim etc are Short Spear , maybe a few with ME then the Rohirrim have a significant advantage with extra factors and shatter.
Lance.

Really interesting response,Lance! We are thinking about the same things but applying them in different ways.

It's worth pointing out (as you do) that the Riders of Rohan were generally better horsemen and had better horses than their opponents. You think, not unreasonably, that this might make them 'drilled', which takes into account better communication of orders to both horse and rider.  I see the same factor (better communication between horse and rider) as increasing fighting ability, but not really a substitute for regular practice and maneuver as a unit, which is what drilled implies. That's a big part of the DC I want to give them (better mounts tend to win charges) as well as ME (better horsemanship makes melee combat more effective).

I still think that the basically clan/tribal nature of Rohan makes drilled troops harder to swallow, but I do understand why you disagree. Forth Eorlingas! Fear no darkness!

It does seem as though we are on similar lines.

Drilled only for the permanently embodied units formong the Eorls bodyguards, so they would be limited to 4

Then my fat fingers cut in....

The 4`s would be only for a generals bodyguard and therefore one TuG per command.
As the army was bulked out with levy and militia types I would not have all the mounted as CL, DC, ME.
An alternative solution might be to have front rank CL, DC and ME and the rear rank without ME?

I might also include a unit of mounted scouts with SS and ME that wouldnt therefore go charging off all over the place!

Must do some more research.
Lance.

The First Marshal of the Riddermark was the highest military rank and commanded the Muster of Edoras: Riders of the capital Edoras and the surrounding lands, including the King's Lands and Harrowdale.

In his youth, King Théoden had led the Riders of the Muster of Edoras himself, so that no First Marshal was needed and at the time of the War of the Ring, there was no First Marshal.

The Second Marshal of the Riddermark and was based in the Helm's Deep and around the War of the Ring it was filled by Théoden's son, Prince Théodred.

The Third Marshal of the Riddermark was based at Aldburg in the Folde and around the War of the Ring it was filled by Éomer.

All of the above would have have permanent retinue - hence the King & Marshalls Éored. The Kings Éored perhaps should be an upgrade to avoid getting 24 bases. The drilled status is just a mechanic to given them a better control over what is in essence a 'impetuous' type.

I'd be reluctant to make them CL just to avoid in unbalance it will cause to lists like the Dunlending whom fought a bloody war ~ T.A. 2759 (read Appendix "The House of Eorl")
Post the winter of the war Rohan recovered very slowly. Beren welcomed Saruman and allowed him to dwell in Isengard in T.A. ~2759 hoping that he would help the Rohirrim. The following years, after 2799, the Orcs who were defeated and fled from the Battle of Azanulbizar, attempted to establish themselves in the White Mountains. As they crossed Rohan, they were eradicated. However, i don't see this is a pushover - and was hard fought.

D/C, SS , ME is about right to me. I'm not wedded to the bow idea, as it was a gimme for the Battle of Middle Earth players.

We also should consider that Tolkien was inspired by Goths, Scandinavians and the medieval Anglo-Saxons for the Rohirrim. The Goth equivalent would be superior D/C, so we are already being generous. I suggest not diverting too far from a historical archetype to avoid balance issues.

Thanks for this detail.
So what if the Marshals` retinue were CL DC Superior Protected and drilled optional ME and Charge and shoot Bow but the standard Rohirrim were Formed Average DC SS front rank ME optional Charge and shoot Bow?
Indeed happy with the Goth/Viking/Saxon look and general feel, so the above would match that fairly well?
Maybe the levy foot shouldnt be Shieldwall as this will make them too good against other foot DC types? But will allow some cheap filler to balance the cost of the quite powerful mounted who will still be obliged to protect their more vulnerable foot?
And what about the unit of SS scouts?
Lance.

like this

I like it, not least the presentation!

1. Should the Kings Bodyguard be Exceptional? Were they that good?
2. Max bases for their TuG should be 4? If they are a separate line.
3. Should Eored be Experienced bow or Charge only Bow? The former might lead they to be more Horse Archers than anything else?
4. Are the Skirmishing Horse allowed? Dont have a big issue with it myself, especially if the other horse are Charge only.
5. What about the foot levy - an additional line being Tribal Close, Average, SS, optional CS, in 6`s to 8`s ? Max of 24?

Regards, Lance.

Apparently in Unfinished Tales the Kings and Marshalls Eored were only a company strong, or about 120 men.There is also mention of small numbers of Horse Archers.
So I would suggest the Guard Eored are in units of two bases only. List wise then they should be 2 to 8 bases in UGs of twos?
Lance.

I have not read much of Unfinished Tales.Is that where all the shootiness of the Rohirrim is coming from? I don't see it from the Trilogy.
I do understand that Tolkien based them on the Goths, but Tolkien was not bound to the concept when it came to military tactics. I really don't understand the reluctance to give the basic horsemen lance.It's true that this means they will whip any opposing cavalry unless heavily outnumbered, which I frankly think is accurate. Riders of Rohan basically rolled right over vastly superior numbers of Orcs when charging mounted (Pelenor Fields and Helm's deep). They beat the stuffings out of riders from Harad, Khand,and various Easterlings as well.They got in trouble when surrounded by superior numbers. Why do we want to make them basically the same (or only slightly better than) their opponents? They should be much better than, and many fewer than, their enemies.

Certainly dont want to make them the same as other troops!

If Harad cavalry are short spear then the lancers are up 3 at impact with shatter and the Rohirrim are up one at impact with shatter. Combine this with Charge and shoot bow and a leavening of ME and they will be powerful.

Average loose order Orcs will suffer even more.

So this should make them much better than their natural enemies and outnumbered too?

Probably the only other lance armed types for LOTR would be Gondorean knights, certainly of any quality anyway?

But everything is in a melting pot for now.....and what about a LOTR competition/meet my preciousssss?
Lance.

Unfinised Tales - The Battles of the Fords of Isen

Prior to the first battle Theodred advances over the Isen towards Isengard:

"Leaving three companies of Riders, together with horse-herds and spare mounts, on the east bank, he himself passed over with the main strength of his cavalry: eight companies and a company of archers, intending to overthrow Saruman's army before it was fully prepared."

also Unfinished Tales it describes the ride of Eorl; "Eorl led forth some seven thousand fully-armed riders and some hundreds of horsed archers."

You may choose to interpret these as three detached companies contained horse archers. Though alternatively the 'heavy' cavalry companies could also have contained some archers. Also within 'unit group' whether they would be combined

In Eomer's battle at the eaves of Fangorn an Eored contained at least a few horse-archers. So either every Eored contained about 10% horse archers, and they could be grouped together from bigger formations. Or every Eored contained some (10%?) horse archers and about 1-in-10 Eoreds were completely horse-archer.

Revised



to compare to a natural opponent