I use 10mm scale Copplestone Trolls as Half Trolls in the Harad or Mordor ranks. Some of them have shields and a scaled skin. I use some Games Workshop Warhammer Orcs for Mountain trolls at 15mm scale. I use Oathmark Black Orcs that make good sized 15mm scale trolls with armour and shields. I had thought to use the old citadel Uruks for armoured Trolls but having got a couple they look too big. Lastly there's a plastic range at 1:72 scale (20mm) – they have a similar look to the trolls in the film. I can't remember the name of the company. I can recommend you consider joining the Facebook page called 'Wargaming in Middle Earth.' There are a couple of collectors there who do 15 and 10mm scale. That site is dedicated to alternative miniatures to Games Workshop (it's one of their rules). A picture of the plastic trolls was posted there in last week scaled against 10mm infantry but they looked far too big.

Did I miss the Army list template before... anyway, glad they're available - especially as I'm trying to work out army lists for Tolkien-themed battles. I had been using the excel sheets and getting bamboozled! Along with trying to learn the rules. I could just use the Lidless Eye lists of course.

Having just got a copy of MeG I started out trying to see if I could convert my existing DBM Tolkien Army Lists from Thane Maxwell before trying out a pacto learning game. Working my way toward setting up a small encounter based on where Sauron attempts an ambush with some orcs and easterlings of the vanguard of Rohan and Gondor army on it's way to the Morannon. I admit to not having played the game yet for how the nuances will work and trying to balance against Gondor Roquen cavalry and Dol Amroth and the 1st and 2nd age elite elf cavalry of Beleriand (the definition of 'superior').

Here is my initial idea for Rohan under Théoden/Eomer:

Household knights   CAVALRY   Drilled Close   Superior   Protected   Long Spear   -   -   DevastatIng Chargers   Melee Expert   Dismountable   -

Riders of Rohan   CAVALRY   Tribal Close   Average   Protected   Long Spear   -   -   DevastatIng Chargers   Fleet of Foot   Dismountable   -

Rohan Horse Archers   CAVALRY   Formed Loose   Superior   Protected   Short Spear   Experienced   Bow   Feigned Flight   Shoot & Charge   -   -

Rohan Household Infantry   INFANTRY   Formed Close   Average   Protected   Short Spear   -   -   Integral Shooters   Melee Expert   Shove   Shieldwall

RoRoh dismounted   INFANTRY   Tribal Close   Average   Protected   Short Spear   -   -   Integral Shooters   Shove   Shieldwall   -
Rohan skirmishers 0-30%*   INFANTRY   Tribal Close   Average   Protected   -   Experienced   Bow   -   -   -   -

Archers 0-20%*   INFANTRY   Tribal Loose   Average   Protected   -   Experienced   Bow   -   -   -   -

Theme-specific figures and buildings etc at 'Croms Anvil' web page....

For more inspiration have a look at the Facebook site 'Wargaming in Middle Earth.' A Games Workshop-free zone for various scales and alternatives to the film approach.

...Added Battle valor at Dragon Frog. Plus Tin Soldier 15mm orcs.

I don't know how to do the 'pinning' thing... Happy for someone else to do it if it helps.

Matt

Here's my list of 15mm figures (I'm in the UK). 15 years of collecting. I need to update it slightly. There's an Italian company making some very good figures for 15mm orcs but I can't recall name of manufacturer.

15mm Tolkien Wargames Figures

Best 15mm companies appear to be Vexillia, Mirliton, Donnington (for some ranges) and Demonworld fantasy range. I got a lot of siege engines from Donnington Miniatures recently.

I can also recommend the Facebook site 'wargames in middle earth' for inspiration. The forum makes appoint of alternatives to Games Workshop. Most of the scale features are for 28mm but there's a few of us that do 15mm and 10mm.

Elves - 'Eureka Miniatures' (or 'Fighting 15's'). They are 18mm scale which fits I think as they are just that bit taller. Choices from the 'Elves of the Lofty Spire' range mainly and some good stuff in the 'Wood Elves' range. The cavalry in the latter are too big. Stygians from Dragon Frog games might serve.

Gondor - I use historical 'Carolingians' made by 'Battle Honours'/'Old Glory 15s' for the infantry. As of June 2020 they are available via Timecast UK.
Cavalry by 'Vexillia' their Baueda range of 15mm Carolingians.

If I were to start again I would probably use Normans which would look great painted in black livery with their kite shields and white tree symbol, but with swords and spears - not axes. Donnington Miniatures are also ok. I pick stuff from them for Gondor's sub states line Morthond etc
For Dol Amroth I used Russian infantry and cavalry figures by Vexillia (Alexander Nevsky).

Trolls - I use 10mm scale Copplestone for Olog-Hai/Half Trolls for my wargames and/or Games Workshop Orcs for Mountain trolls at 15mm scale. I did discover a better possibility recently but can't recall what name of company is. Or possibly Oathmark orcs that make good sized 15mm scale trolls.

Rohan - Rohan infantry - Donnington miniatures - their Saxon range I think mainly the leader packs and swords and also their Vikings.

For the cavalry - Essex miniatures but a mixture of all sorts of historical types such as Sassanid Persians, some Vikings. I did a lot of customising of mine that involved putting horse tail plumes and cloaks on from GW green stuff.
Otherwise you could try Ottonians via 'Battle Honours.'

Harad Via 'Vexillia Miniatures.' Mirliton Muslim range from the Crusades.

Mumakil by 'Kingmaker Miniatures' - African or Indian - Resin. I went with African but the Indian are slightly bigger. A 20mm scale elephant (about £10 each in 2018). The elephants have howdahs in which you can fit three-four figures and then more if you put them onto the base of the elephant. Some elephants available without Howdahs and there are now casualty elephants.

Wolves/Wolf Riders - Demonworld. Magister Millitum, Museum Miniatures I think.

Dwarves - Demonworld are the best I've found without exception. Some personalities are available via small packs often advertised on ebay as Demonworld closed down or Ral Partha Europe. I did some conversion work to give spears to Dwarves or other impact weapons.

Easterlings - I used Han Chinese from Xyston I think. Mongols could also work.

Variags - Vexillia or the Demonworld 'Thane' barbarian type figures. I might have a lot of the latter of these spare. If I were to start from scratch I'd probably look at some historical barbaric nations, partly armoured like Germanic Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Sarmations.

Orcs - All sorts from stuff now out of production, Demonworld for Uruks but available via Ral Partha Europe (I customised mine with shields). Magister Militum, Museum Miniatures. Ral Partha black orcs - now out of print. Tin Soldier 15mm orcs (UK). Battle Valor Goblinoids. The best looking stuff only available from an American supplier called Khurasan or Splintered Light look good but no UK dealer. They do character figures. I'd have them slightly smaller as well so 10mm scale might work (Kallistra or Copplestone). I use the copplestone half orc archers as 'snaga.' Some Italian company just released a new range of orcs based on the film which look good but not seen how they scale with typical 15mm figures (I like my orcs to be smaller than human counterparts).

Personalities:
I stuck with the plastic Witch King from the boardgame War of the Ring and have never found a better substitute at 15mm scale. I also have him on a mounted figure which involved  a wyvern mini from Demonworld, the rider being substituted for a wraith by Museum Miniatures I think. They make mounted wraith figures. Magister Militum do ghost figures to which I added some spare swords from Donnington miniatures.

Mouth of Sauron - I intend to use a Mirliton or Vexillia figure.

My Sauron figure is some old slightly converted knight figure with bucket helm. Morgoth I used an old citadel witch king model and made some modifications (shield and silmarils).
 
Legolas and Aragorn from the 'Eureka Miniatures' Elven range.

I've never come across it RobAustin.
If you've not already done so perhaps the website you copied in to your post and it's forum is a good place to recruit over to MeG to support your army list work? I discovered MeG by way of the Wargaming in Middle Earth FB page.

Rhovanion then Eotheod lists Third Age 1-1977 and TA 1856-2510 respectively.

Credit again to Thane Maxwell.

A list that covers the 'Northmen' armies of Rhovanion (specifically located around the Brown Lands south of Mirkwood and east of the River Running). These were the precursors of the Rohirrim and longstanding allies of Gondor of the Kings (who may well have assisted them in turn as a provincial ally). They lived in tribal settlements centred on fortified burghs and were great breeders of horses. Vidugavia was their greatest King in the 15th century TA and Marhwini assisted Gondor at the Battle of Dagorlad in 1899. They were weakened by the great plague of 1636 (as were many 'Men of the West'), then subjugated by the Wainriders from the East in 1856. (As is often inferred in Tolkien mythos plague considered dark magic or an archetypal force made manifest by the main evil protagonist of the time archetype as proteon given form?). Remnants revolted and some regained their freedom in 1944 but not their numbers. The Eotheod become distinct by 1856 and settled the lands between Carrock and the Celebrant. Population pressure and the growing shadow of Dol Guldor forced them north into the Vales of Anduin under the leadership of Frumgar. Eorl the Young then led them to the crucial Battle of the Field of Celebrant to assist Cirion of Gondor, who gave them Calenardhon by way of gratitude.

Troops (by elements):
CinC Irr Kn Fast 1
Sub as CinC 0-1
Ally as Irr Kn Fast 1-2
Horse Irr Kn Fast 18-48
Horse archers Irr LH fast or superior 4-12.
Spearmen Irr spear inferior 0-24.
Levy Archers as Bow armed SuG or supporting bow in the ranks (psiloi), 0-12
Upgrade spearmen to armoured spearmen Irr sp ordinary, 0-50% of existing spearmen elements above.

Allies:
Gondor of the Ship Kings.
Kinstrife Gondor.
Later Royal Gondor.
Dorwinnian.
Woodmen (Eotheod only).

terrain:
cold, agricultural, woods, woods, river, hills gentle, orchards, vineyards, marsh, road, BUA

From Thane Maxwell's army lists

1) The Rhovanion or Eotheod army lists 3rd age 1-1977 and 1856-2510 respectively.

2) Rohan third age 2510+

Rohirrim described as primarily charging cavalry armed with lance (long spear?), sword, shield and mail. There is no mention of double arming and good archers were described as in short supply at the Battle of Helms Deep. Horse archers are described and equipped with mail, sword and in a close support role in battle. They constituted perhaps a third of Eomer's riders pursuing the Orc raiders that captured the Hobbits. An Ally General represents the dual command of two Marshals when the King was not present. For Wulf's rebellion against Helm in TA 2758 there would be need for a Dunmen list. The cavalry (knights) could dismount and fight well as described at the Battle of the Fords of Isen and Pelennor and Morannon. Forming a shieldwall was also described at the former battle. The option to start dismounted relates to Grimbold and Erkenbrand's troops who lost their horses at the Isen but turned up to fight on foot. The Household Eoreds appear to be permanently standing so deserve a classification to reflect that (drilled). Other riders are inferred to manoeuvre effectively and feign retreat so their classification should reflect the same (see the account of the Battle of the Fords of Isen where 3-4 separate actions are described to give a fuller descriptive content of Rohan's military tactics).

Troops (by elements):
CinC the King, Reg Kn ordinary, 1.
Sub Gen as above, 1-3.
Ally, Reg Kn ord, 0-1.
Household and veteran Eoreds, Reg Kn Fast, 18-36 elements.
Horse Archers Reg LH superior, 6-18 (no more than a third of Eored).
Levy Eoreds Irr Kn fast, 0-18.
Levy spearmen, Irr Sp (O), 0-16.
Levy archers (as separate bow SuG or psiloi within the ranks), 0-12.
White Mountains Irr auxillia (O), 0-4.
Downgrade any knight cavalry to spear foot (Irr Sp ord) or Reg sword foot (ord), all/0/or by seprate commands.

Allies:
Gondor of the Steward.
Ents.

Terrain:
cold, waterway/rivers, road, BUA, woods, orchards, rolling hills, marshy ground.

Quote from: Lanceflint on June 08, 2020, 12:27:27 PM
OK, my take on the Third Age would be:

Goblins - quite a lot, say 50% Unprotected, remainder Protected. Tribal, Loose, Devastating Charger, Combat Shy. Optional Integral Shooters. Archers as Unprotected. Great Goblins - Formed, Loose, Average, Protected, Devastating Charger. Optional Melee Expert and/or Integral Shooters.

Saurons Orcs - Tribal, Loose, Protected, Devastating Charger. Optional Combat Shy and/or Integral shooters. Archers same bur with bow.

Uruks  - Formed Loose, Protected, Superior, Devastating Charger, Shove. Optional Integral Shooter and/or Melee Expert.
Otherwise vs Rohan equip with Long Spear but no Melee Expert.

Remember that all troops can be lowered one morale level and one shooting level. Beware of making troops too good!
Lance.

Nicely set out... I think the tribal 'type' reflects the Goblins without a top evil leader that turns them into more of a cohesive and coordinated and disciplined threat or the more disposable support troops for the less battle specific Tactical unit Group work. The barbaric hordes menacing states out in the borderlands of the more civilised cultures. Hit and run tactics/strategy.

The development to more organised, battle worthy types of formed or drilled comes from the will of some overlord like Morgoth, Glaurung, Sauron, Saruman, Gothmog etc. Generally the majority of Orcs (Goblins especially/Snaga) are weaker or smaller than their human and Elvish counterparts but present in far greater numbers at major battles. In other army lists they are described as winning usually by wearing the enemy down or outflanking them (in Tolkien canon). Where they lost it was often due to losing critical command figures (so maybe a downgrade of some especially potent leader like the Witch King - Drilled go down to tribal). They also suffered with inter-tribal rivalries, which only seem offset by the will of powerful overlords. There is something distinctly 'Gaulish' about Orc warfare and the ability to wage it. Numberless hordes. Except from the various battles described across the canon they're rarely prone to impetuous behaviour (in one battle this is the case for the Elves not orcs), usually armed with swords, scimitars, axes and spears with descent armour and close support from archers. They move swiftly when motivated , operated effectively in rough terrain and could resist strongly. They were usually not a match for well-disciplined opponents

Antiokos III

Interested to see your suggestions for Rohan. They match with my own ideas and if memory serves there is a description of feigned retreat in the Unfinished Tales account of the Battle at the Ford of Isen.

There is now a specific Fantasy Section in the forums and one thread related to Tolkien army list ideas/discussion... Do you want to cross post your ideas for the Rohan there where it won't get buried? I intend to experiment with LotR army lists shortly and will probably start with Simon's Lidless Eye work

Thanks,

Matt

Army Lists:

Lance...
In addition to the Thane Maxwell army lists there is also the Luke Ueda Sarson army lists and specific scenario battles. He has a website too.

Matt

Lance...
There is also the Luke Ueda Sarson army lists and specific scenario battles

(I'm cross posting this to the fantasy section of the MeG forum to keep things about MeG fantasy there).

Matt

I'm due to take delivery of my compendium copy of MeG in next few days.

My army list reference for DBMM had been Thane Maxwell's excellent and well-researched army lists from 1st - 3rd Age. All the armies I have are based up accordingly. 40mm fronts and 15-40mm depth, Dragons and Mumakil double based depth.

When the rules arrive I will be looking for equivalence between Inferior, Ordinary, Superior, Fast, Exception grades to convert to MeG and the Regular or Irregular classification (presumably drilled or undrilled). Hopefully that will simulate some similar battlefield behaviour and give the different armies their particular characteristics.

So, the best Orc troops in DBMM are listed as Irreg Blade Fast.

But there are some elements that are difficult to classify based on how they fight by Tolkien - most notably wargs/warg riders. Fight as if LH v Mounted, as if Wb v foot and train, and as cavalry v shooting. Quick kill Pk, Sp, Bd, Ps and Kn. Quick killed by Bw or Ps in base contact.

Dragons, Mumak, Balrogs, Trolls were given their own class of Behemoth ad with range fire for fire breath/shock and awe.

Magic was subsumed into command influence and pip transfers and the ability to command more units.