Thunder bomb oxen are a damp squib

[daveparish]

Hi

Looking at the Ming list their expendables, the thunder bomb oxen have changed. They used to be Battle Chariots, Poor, Combat Shy which gave them a magnificent nett 0 factor against many things. Now that Battle Chariot has gone they are Cavalry, Devastating Charger, Poor, Combat Shy. The first problem with this is that to get DC you have to be two deep. I'm not quite sure what two deep thunder bomb oxen represent - perhaps you form a column so that they blow each other up and the sympathetic detonation makes a bigger bang? The second is that are in a unit of three so only one file can be two deep and so now they are on a nett -2 for one file and -1 for the other ... even before counting the opponents factors.

They were a marginally effective fun unit before - now they are probably useless. Can I suggest either removing the Poor and Combat Shy ratings or giving them a special rule allowing DC factors for one rank deep and then removing the Combat Shy. Either would get them back to near their previous magnificently ineffective but fun status

Dave P

[RocketSix]

Even if 1 rank deep they get the shatter - if not the factor, so you always have the 1/6 no matter the colour. I agree that poor and combat shy is over egging it a bit. To get the skull  (and the extra Shatter option) you'd need green , which given that most have +1 or +2 , its going to be difficult to achieve.

[daveparish]

Yeah, Battle Chariots got a shatter too and even then I never achieved one! So now they are worse it is not going to happen often enough to be significant.
I know this is a niche issue - and they definitely shouldn't be good, just ineffectual enough to be amusing and no worse!

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Wonder if they are better as expendables?

S

[daveparish]

Sorry, I left that bit out for conciseness. They are also Expendables (were before as well). Which makes it even less likely that you'll get a Shatter because you only get one try.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Ah I see so you are looking for the GREEN to have two chances.
Aren't they really cheap through now so just chuck them in 4 wide and see if you get S results?
If you do on the first one all hell breaks loose as you get a kill and shatter.
And the +2 might get you to green for the ones next to it.  Ouch!!

What costs three vs the old ones?

Si

[daveparish]

They are an obscure troop type I admit - but the situation is that they are in a unit of 3 and under the old classification would have been rolling a black or white and hoping for an S shatter to get an adjacent file up to a green - and now they will be on black but the number is so low that even with a shatter the adjacent file will still be on a black , or possibly white.

It's no biggy - but at the moment I wouldn't take them, which is a shame because the Ming are all about the entertaining gimmicks (well, in my mind anyway)

[mad lemmey]

It does give them the same factors as my ordinary stampeding moos other lists, surely these cows of the gods are a bit more 'special' as they might explode any moment?

[daveparish]

Oohh, I hadn't thought of that argument! Yes I would think that an exploding cow would be more scary than a normal cow - but what do I know?

[mad lemmey]

Don't milk it...

[lionheartrjc]

As I am sure you are aware, the purpose of the thunder-bombs was to make the oxen stampede, not to blow them up!

[mad lemmey]

Instant bbq! 

[daveparish]

As I am sure you are aware, the purpose of the thunder-bombs was to make the oxen stampede, not to blow them up!

OK, that's a new bit of information. I guess I was going on my figures which have barrels of gunpowder strapped to the oxen. Probably not a good idea to get your history from figure manufacturers! Do you have any reference for that (not that I doubt you - just that I'm interested now)

Dave P

[daveparish]

Ooh I've found a reference on my own bookshelf!

This is from a book called Fire and Water by Ralph Sawyer and the reference he gives is "Wu-pei Chih "Huo ch'i T'u-shao", 10" which from what he says is a Ming Dynasty text.

Sawyers description of this (on page 125 of his book) is:-

"...another variant mounted a large explosive bomb on the ox's back and boldly employed it as a brutal, automated bomb-delivery system, though with the usual side spears affixed to prevent it being easily intercepted"  and on the same page about another variant which seems to involve a pyramid shaped (?) explosive and firebrands attached to the tail he says "...even though the incendiary and consternation effects were primary,the explosive would of course detonate and the ox perish" 

There seem to be lots of variants including just flaming rags attached to the oxens tails and even flaming rags attached to chickens - but there seems to be  definite evidence for my exploding cow interpretation.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Very good. Exploding oxen like artillery when they hit things...?

Hilarious

S