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Author Topic: Shield Cover  (Read 290 times)

rayfredjohn

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Shield Cover
« on: October 09, 2019, 08:08:59 AM »
If you elect to use "Shield Cover" in the shooting phase can you push through the slowing effects of this with a card in the subsequent movement phase?

mad lemmey

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 08:30:52 AM »
Yes
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rayfredjohn

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 08:44:47 AM »

lionheartrjc

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 08:46:57 AM »
Yes, this came up as a query quite recently.

Richard

rayfredjohn

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 08:51:18 AM »
Thank you chaps

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2019, 02:42:51 AM »
Yes and will make even clearer.

S
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badhabum

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2019, 07:25:38 PM »
Might be needed

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2019, 08:09:05 AM »
Not sure why. But ok.

S
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badhabum

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2019, 11:38:49 AM »
Why : because it is a regular question as many people think that prompting your unit trough fire is just that : charging and trying to get at the ennemy .

Not cancelling the slowing effect of a shield cover
Not having your skirmishers fleeing fast enough

Because in a few days it is the second time that question has been asked  8)

Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2019, 02:09:01 PM »
Tx Jacques

Yes I get that but, my question is not that, but rather why is it unclear? 
Helpful to know as am redrafting now so can fix it - if I know why it's unclear.

You know I am happy to answer Q&A officially. FWIW Latest Shield cover has had "Generals may prompt through Fire to remove this slowing effect as if they move they are movers" added several months ago - when first raised to make doubly clear.

You say ...
Quote
Why : because it is a regular question as many people think that prompting your unit through fire is just that : charging and trying to get at the enemy.

OK - but my question is why do people think that when the rules state in black and white as below ... and when I was at IWC last year numerous people prompted through fire against my Byzantines when not charging?
1. [page 93 f.4 "Generals  ... can prompt through fire ... to get movement back ....  for chargers and movers."
2. And the example in light blue below is not charging. Not even in the charge section.
3. And turn sequence 4.3  (= movement) includes Prompting through Fire

I will alter that section on pages 92 and 93 to make it triply clear. 
I'll probably make it "any chargers, evaders or other movers" and have a glossary definition for each as well.
And add Prompting through fire to Turn Sequence as well for evaders.
Looking ore deeply I need to add it to page 46  5.4 as well.

Si







« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 02:45:17 PM by Simon Meg-Meister »
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Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2019, 02:53:44 PM »
For clarity ... how is this

Quote
15. SHIELD COVER
Shield Cover represents troops  with large shields who were able to lock them together for protection against missiles.  The Roman Testudo is the ultimate version, but many troops with large shields could do something similar, and Romans were adept at doing so without forming formal Testudo (which were generally for sieges).
2.   Files may choose to use Shield Cover when shot at in any Shooting Phase - they choose to do so before shooting dice are rolled.  The shooting player must enquire before rolling dice.
3.   Bases that have used Shield Cover this turn may not shoot (unless specified as an exception in the Army Lists); bases behind such a base can shoot normally.
4.   UGs with any bases using Shield Cover suffer a 1BW Slowing that will affect them in Movement thereafter (place a dice as usual to record this).  Generals may Prompt through Fire to remove this slowing effect.
5.   Shield Cover increases the targets armour level by one from Unprotected to Protected, or Protected to Fully Armoured.
6.   Shield Cover cannot be used in the Charge Phase, nor by any base engaged in Combat either frontally or as a Supporting File. 
7.   Shield Cover can be used when shot at from Flank or Rear.

AND

Quote
12. SHOOT & CHARGE
Shoot & Charge covers troops who were adept at firing a volley and following it with a charge to take immediate advantage of the effect of their shooting.  The charge was still their primary fighting method, but with a softening up effect immediately beforehand.  Byzantines and Aztecs both operated this way.
1.   Troops must start within shooting range and over 1BW away from targets to use Shoot & Charge. [SH to LF: neat solution with some realism to it?]
2.   The UG shoots immediately when they declare a charge, shooting as if from maximum range. 
1.   For added clarity, Generals may Prompt through Fire to remove any slowing effect caused by Shoot & Charge.
3.   Shoot & Charge cannot be used with a Countercharge or Intercept, which we deem to be a hurried response not allowing the time for their normal prepared charge to be carried out.
4.   Shoot&Charge is an automatic characteristic (free) for troops who have Charge Only shooting.

Si
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RobAustin

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2019, 07:00:25 PM »
Quote
It is unclear because of terminology. it is called "prompt through FIRE." That will lead most people understand that it is applied to slowing caused by FIRING.

If it can be applied to anything, then you should not narrow its parameter by including FIRE in the main term. Maybe call it COUNTERACT SLOWING EFFECTS.

How do people feel about changing known terms?  Always bothers me a bit once people ar used to things. 

Almost all slowing is from fire ...  KaB tests he other one.

"Prompting throughs Slows" would be an easy shift.

S
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 08:12:50 AM by Simon Meg-Meister »

nikgaukroger

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2019, 07:15:38 PM »
Prompt Through Slowing?
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Jilu

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2019, 05:15:34 AM »
2.   The UG shoots immediately when they declare a charge, shooting as if from maximum range.
1.   For added clarity, Generals may Prompt through Fire to remove any slowing effect caused by Shoot & Charge.

point 2 : is it not  = shooting as if over 1 MU
point 1 : general may prompt to hurry
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Simon Meg-Meister

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Re: Shield Cover
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 08:14:17 AM »
2.   The UG shoots immediately when they declare a charge, shooting as if from maximum range.
1.   For added clarity, Generals may Prompt through Fire to remove any slowing effect caused by Shoot & Charge.

point 2 : is it not  = shooting as if over 1 MU
point 1 : general may prompt to hurry

2 = same thing so I'm ambivalent, unless I've missed something
1 = I think we should stick to the defined terms "Prompt through Fire" being one.  May want to change the terms as RoB suggests above though.
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