Chariots

[martymagnificent]

Another really good FOGN comp (in spite of the somewhat noisy room). I came second, Richard Stubbs got first with his Russians.

It and MeG are my current wargaming loves and I find it hard to pick what to play when both are available.

I'm looking forward to playing MeG at Cancon, now even more so, thanks to the generous prize support!

Assuming the chariot changes go ahead and are out by then I may give some chariots a run to see ho it all plays out.

Martin

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Great. 
Maybe we will get a game.

Indeed those are my two favourite rulesets too.

Si

[badhabum]

Wondering what the Minoan chariots will become in the new ruleset ? A few more days to wait

[lionheartrjc]

Sneak preview:

Charioteers in Dendra panoply - Chariots, Formed Loose, Superior, -/Fully Armoured, Long Spear.
Charioteers with javelins - Chariots, Formed Loose, Average, Protected, Short Spear, Experienced Javelins.

Richard

[badhabum]

Just a few more days to wait

[martymagnificent]

Lots of good stuff in the 2020 materials but bitterly disappointed by what I am seeing with the chariots.

No points reduction (if you have bow it is very slightly cheaper)

You pay for devastating charger (ie probably paying to make chariot worse as you lose evade)

Not only is melee expert compulsory on pretty much all the previous battle chariots it costs more than it did

Chinese chariots are still worse shots than the biblical ones

Unless I have missed something it is essentially the full propsed change with no softening of the blow at all. Your former battlechariots are now light chariots loaded up with a whole lot of characteristics you may or may not want.

Martin

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Great that you see lottos good stuff in 2020.
And hope you like the new dedicated Mortem et Gloriam website.

Don't be disappointed yet as you have the points wrong above....

Points are down 10 a base for an old Battle Chariot to new chariot!
Bow down 5 for mounted, Cross bow 7.

So a bow battle chariot is not 15 less as its base cost which is quite a bit!
Run them through and you will see quite a difference.

Dev charger remains as was at 13 as we felt it gives the killer icing if you want to charge it was n't right to remove it as it takes away evading - as evading is not what you plan.

Also we don't want to overshoot.  Chariots is an area where clearly we need to keep an eye on costs having made the changes.  If there is a modest error we will leave it but if a big one we will fix it with an updated army builder.  Having tested them a fair bit I don't think there is one.

I much prefer them cheaper and able to evade for most.  The big hitters are still pretty nasty.

Si

[martymagnificent]

Don't be disappointed yet as you have the points wrong above....

Points are down 15 a base for an old Battle Chariot to new chariot!
5 for an old Light Chariot vs new Chariot.
Bow down 5 for mounted, Cross bow 7.

So a bow battle chariot is not 20 less as its base cost which is quite a bit!
Run them through and you will see quite a difference.

Comparing them to battlechariots is meaningless, they no longer do what Battlechariots did. From a base POV they are identical to the old light chariots so that is the obvious and only fair comparison. I have both army builders open in front of me and the cost of the old light chariot is identical to the new chariot cost, I don't know if this is not what you intended?

Dev charger remains as was at 13 as we felt it gives the killer icing if you want to charge it was n't right to remove it as it takes away evading - as evading is not what you plan.

It's a pretty limited sh&@!y icing that in no way makes up for the loss of evade. The extra points cost is just adding insult to injury.

Also we don't want to overshoot.  Chariots is an area where clearly we need to keep an eye on costs having made the changes.  If there is a modest error we will leave it but if a big one we will fix it with an updated army builder.  Having tested them a fair bit I don't think there is one.

Overshoot? they're getting worse not better and couldn't even dominate in a biblical theme comp under the old rules!

I think mine are going on the shelf.

Martin

IVEE EDITED IT AS FAULTY MEMORY. DUH.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Its funny as I think mine are coming out for the first time in vengeance.

Well you get the benefit of not paying for BCh points as you lose the punch.
Not comparing just pointing it out.

It's funny as I think mine are coming out for the first time in vengeance.
I think you like tanks more than I do though - at least in this period! :-)

Overshoot not in abilities but points reduction.
We can always bring them down more if they are not being used.
The market is a good measure not we have made the change to fit without historicity principle.

Plenty more armies to try Marty - we have 650!
And when and if the price suits you roll 'em again.

Si

[martymagnificent]

Don't really think it can be fixed with points.

Just don't particularly want to run light chariots with melee expert. Can't understand why something as subjective as melee expert couldn't at least be made optional. Upping its cost just really pushes it over the edge in to 'hard no' territory.

To further add to my bemusement the army I run most often (Five Hegemons) can't have its cheap and effective shortspear any more. If it wants an impact factor it has to buy mounted frickin polearm. Expensive, a worse impact factor and leaves them puzzlingly good in melee (and massively expensive) because they still have to by melee expert.

We are supposed to accept that these chariots were so good in melee that they are superior, polearm, melee expert. You then have a troop type that has spent 70 or so points on melee capabilities but also pays to shoot and evade!! It's a simply terrible, overequipped combination.

Martin

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Anything like that post to the list query section as that is a list not a rule issues.

Richard always listens to such things.

Si