2020 rule tweaks

[Robin]

Been looking. Same area, but fight together ummm cant find it !!!!

[nikgaukroger]

Been looking. Same area, but fight together ummm cant find it !!!!

Cheers. I genuinely didn't know and was wondering. Suspected it was the case as multiple foreign allies are the exception IMO 

[marshalney2000]

Been looking. Same area, but fight together ummm cant find it !!!!

Well they fought together in quite a few armies at Britcon and at Skulls so historical precedent has been set.😂😂😂

[daveparish]

Well one of the armies had two allies that never historically fought together. At the moment. You can take minimal amount of main army troop types and fill out with goodies from other lists. And let's not forget the Frisians almost conquered the world LOL. Roman's, Byzantines and Norman's were historically rubbish !! Right 
It's a bit Flames of War v4. Cherry picking. Needs sorting.

You aren't quite specific -do you mean the Viking and Dithmarschen allies shouldn't be together? I had a quick look and there were loads of occasions where Dithmarschen forces were linked with Germans (Battle of Bornhoved - then later on loosely ruled by the Archbishop of Bremen and still later allied to the Hanseatic city of Lubeck). The bit I'm not sure about is where the Vikings come in. I suppose they represent Danish forces - but those two were generally on opposite sides (eg Bornhoved) so the list probably needs a note that you can't take them together - or more radically drop the Viking ally totally (I didn't look for the evidence there). But this is just a list tweak issue isn't it?

PS Don't underestimate the Dithmarshen - they kept on winning against far superior opposition (in numbers and equipment) - think a courageous effective peasant army like the Swiss but just a bit less famous

[daveparish]

Just had a look at the lists and the other ally is indeed Early Medieval Danish (who just look very like Vikings). Just to emphasise again  that those two were mostly enemies (the Dithmarshen and the Danes)

[nikgaukroger]

Well one of the armies had two allies that never historically fought together. At the moment. You can take minimal amount of main army troop types and fill out with goodies from other lists. And let's not forget the Frisians almost conquered the world LOL. Roman's, Byzantines and Norman's were historically rubbish !! Right 
It's a bit Flames of War v4. Cherry picking. Needs sorting.

You aren't quite specific -do you mean the Viking and Dithmarschen allies shouldn't be together? I had a quick look and there were loads of occasions where Dithmarschen forces were linked with Germans (Battle of Bornhoved - then later on loosely ruled by the Archbishop of Bremen and still later allied to the Hanseatic city of Lubeck). The bit I'm not sure about is where the Vikings come in. I suppose they represent Danish forces - but those two were generally on opposite sides (eg Bornhoved) so the list probably needs a note that you can't take them together - or more radically drop the Viking ally totally (I didn't look for the evidence there). But this is just a list tweak issue isn't it?

PS Don't underestimate the Dithmarshen - they kept on winning against far superior opposition (in numbers and equipment) - think a courageous effective peasant army like the Swiss but just a bit less famous

Yup, the "Vikings" are Early Medieval Danish.

It is a list issue. However, it would be, IMO, no bad thing to tighten up across all the list books on when foreign allies can be used together as I think it was fairly unusual.

[DracoStandard]

Its interesting on the Dithmarshen (or possibly Frisian) / Danish thing that only the Germans with internal Frisian (or possibly Dithmarshen) troops can have Danish allies.


I would have thought it more represented different proto German states in a combined army

[DracoStandard]

Feudal Germans fighting alongside Danes in the crusade against the Wends https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendish_Crusade
The archbishopric of Bremen includes Dithmarschen (at least on the maps I can find of the HRE in 1150ish)

[marshalney2000]

Firstly let me say I think the triple alliance between the Danes, Frisians and Feudal Germans is a bit cheesy. Having said that nothing is more likely than the sun rising in the morning than that when an army does well and is popular questions begin to get asked. I am sure there are loads of other examples out there where allied combos are dubious or happened only once.
Must admit, one of my pet hates is when troops are downgraded in shooting ability and/or morale to save  points and provide filler for the rest of the army which is normally of high morale and weapon skills at a level of par excellence only matched by the Old Guard. Then these units are then secreted away from harm. I saw this at Britcon and in other competitions. For once, why cannot the better troops be downgraded.

[nikgaukroger]

Firstly let me say I think the triple alliance between the Danes, Frisians and Feudal Germans is a bit cheesy. Having said that nothing is more likely than the sun rising in the morning than that when an army does well and is popular questions begin to get asked. I am sure there are loads of other examples out there where allied combos are dubious or happened only once.

Loads I suspect.

As list review is underway I can assure you that no army is being targeted by the list team due to successful performances - not that I expect anyone to believe me on that if they find a change they don't like to one of their lists 

[marshalney2000]

Firstly let me say I think the triple alliance between the Danes, Frisians and Feudal Germans is a bit cheesy. Having said that nothing is more likely than the sun rising in the morning than that when an army does well and is popular questions begin to get asked. I am sure there are loads of other examples out there where allied combos are dubious or happened only once.

Loads I suspect.

As list review is underway I can assure you that no army is being targeted by the list team due to successful performances - not that I expect anyone to believe me on that if they find a change they don't like to one of their lists 

Ok Nik. I was not being totally serious and indeed I have done this myself. From my point of view, average long spear cavalry are still far to cheap and have added terrain and other weapon cancellation bonuses which make them great value. Please do not change too soon though as I may use at Derby.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

On allies I think our consensus is that a single ally may be used only unless the list specifies otherwise.

S

[marshalney2000]

On allies I think our consensus is that a single ally may be used only unless the list specifies otherwise.

S

For clarity this needs to be spelled out in each list I.e. only one allied contingent is allowed (unless the opposite applies.

[badhabum]

You have to write it only at the beginning of each BOOK not list !

[nikgaukroger]

Given how frequently players seem blissfully unaware of the sections on general rules for lists, allies, etc. it'd be better to say in each list if allies can be used together