How to beat the (insert meta army here)?

[rayfredjohn]

great, no change. Dust off the Arab Conquest.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Go for it.
My Huns will cope...

Si

[Simon Meg-Meister]

My sense is we have suspicion of an issue but not evidence.
Mr Stead is spot on to me.
I will gladly face any of them with these Romans.

S

Are your Romans any better than than fully Armoured foot THCT  and melee expert as I saw quite a few of them off?

Depends if they were Drilled Flexibles or not ... some people know how to get value out of these two things

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Ah yes good point I only took into account 2 files fighting in my numbers which is of course sh*t for anything bigger than an 8.

The short answer then is you need red dice versus something 2 wide, 4 deep or else the ability to break off and keep going in on yellow (green not so good - makes it about 4 turns)
Either way you're looking at three turns to kill them as a minimum.
Which probably leaves some time for the enemy to envelop you.

Which feels right to me.
Concentrated effort in one area frontally or flanks or terrain and clever use of loose order troops or flexibles.
Or now shoot them to a standstill.. The change to prompting has a big effect on 2 deep/4 wide!!
There are downsides to be a 2-wide TuG.  I suspect they will ne the most affected by the prompting change.

S

[rayfredjohn]

Go for it.
My Huns will cope...

Si

Are you going to Derby???

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Probably not.
Likely to have one more trip to UK this year.
To do some sorting with Mum and Dad in Lancashire so the Ribble Rumble might be the one I get to.

S

[mad lemmey]

So, I've found a Meta beating army,
And the meta is changing!
Now, how do you beat skilled horse archers? 

[nikgaukroger]

Superior mounted with ArmHrs don't do them any favours if used wisely. Also longbowmen. Additionally many of the widely available skilled shooting horse archers are Unprotected or if not are pretty expensive. You need a deft touch to use them well.

[nikgaukroger]

Also infantry who can shoot who have Shield Cover or (rarer) Pavise can cause them issues.

As RJC commented after Britcon, they're successful partly because players are not used to facing them, there are a number of readily available counters.

[Simon Meg-Meister]

See the meta theories keep changing ... sounds like no meta to me ....

S

[nikgaukroger]

See the meta theories keep changing ...

And the usual suspects carry on doing well in comps ...

[Jilu]

Ah yes good point I only took into account 2 files fighting in my numbers which is of course sh*t for anything bigger than an 8.

The short answer then is you need red dice versus something 2 wide, 4 deep or else the ability to break off and keep going in on yellow (green not so good - makes it about 4 turns)
Either way you're looking at three turns to kill them as a minimum.
Which probably leaves some time for the enemy to envelop you.

Which feels right to me.
Concentrated effort in one area frontally or flanks or terrain and clever use of loose order troops or flexibles.
Or now shoot them to a standstill.. The change to prompting has a big effect on 2 deep/4 wide!!
There are downsides to be a 2-wide TuG.  I suspect they will ne the most affected by the prompting change.

S

will that not render pike units less good ?...will pikes not be to expensive now ? as against shooting armies they will virtualy be standing and moving very little?
were pikes stopped by being shot at historically ?

[Simon Meg-Meister]

It will make it a little harder to get pikes without skirmish screens into shooters.
Although the compactness and drilled tends to make prompting relatively easy for the best of them.
I think then tweak to shooting might make skirmisher screens a bit more desirable which would be nice.

I'm sure while rules are nailed down we will have a little bit of points debate going on next year.
But that we can adjust easily as within the Army Builder.

Si

[Rino]

Hi Simon,
By your last phrase are you intending that after the V2020 (rules, list, budget) we will have a budget v2020.2 Over the year ?

[nikgaukroger]

Hi Simon,
By your last phrase are you intending that after the V2020 (rules, list, budget) we will have a budget v2020.2 Over the year ?

I don't think there is a plan for such, but if it were needed due to badly out of whack points it is an easy implementation.