Thematic Byzantine in North Africa

[nikgaukroger]

Resulting from my latest reading around the fringes of empires 

Based on Walter Kaegi's "Muslim Expansion and Byzantine Collapse in North Africa" - he references a lot of works that are, alas, not available in English.

Looking at the cooperation between the Byzantines and Moors. The Thematic list allows Moorish allies only in 681 CE, and also Byzantine allies in a Moorish army for the same date. Not unreasonable as it doesn't appear clear who is likely to be the larger part of any combined force, however, I cannot see where the 681 CE date comes from - although it may just result from a vagueness of dates in accounts.

Looking at Kaegi we have Byzantine and "local forces" defeated in 682 CE (which maybe what the 681 CE refers to) - the locals are most likely to include Moors - and then themselves defeated by Moors and Byzantines in 683/4 CE.

Between 683 CE and 686 CE a combined force led by one Kasila (winner of the latter battle above) take and hold the Arab founded city of Qayrawan. Kasila was defeated and killed in 688 CE.

All suggests to me that the allies should be allowed until 688 CE.

[nikgaukroger]

Oh, and as a related point the Byzantine deserters in the Later Moorish list have optional Melee Expert that the same troops in the Early Byzantine list cannot have. Suspect that should be removed.