Cantabrian

[stuuk]

The rules for cantabrian look to have been altered maybe in 2019?
Please help me decypher:

-Cantabrian is represented by turning the bases of a file to face backwards

-When  running away or skirmishing, first turn any figures to face forwards


Does this mean that if they evade they come out of Cantabrian?

[lionheartrjc]

Turning a base around is merely to indicate that the UG is in Cantabrian formation - it is just a marker.  Personally I turn one base sideways rather than backwards (this is because my eyesight is not as good as it once was and a lot of horse archer bases have riders doing a parthian shot and you can't tell which way round they are!).

The Characteristic definition is clear, they remain in Cantabrian if they run away or skirmish.


Richard

[stuuk]

So what is the purpose of this line:

"if charged they must Run Away or Skirmish"..."turning any figures to face forwards before doing so."

Are we effectively saying it's meaningless? why do i adjust the direction of the figures (which is to indicate the unit was in a particular formation) ?

[lionheartrjc]

I must admit I hadn't noticed this and have no idea.  If it is intended to mean that troops in Cantabrian who skirmish or run away automatically come out of Cantabrian formation then it would be helpful if it said this! 

Richard

[marshalney2000]

Logic would suggest to me that if they run away then they would abandon cantabrian but if skirmishing then less likely to do so. Agree not covered in the rules.

[stuuk]

It can make a large difference too, because if a card is needed to re-enter cantabrian, it becomes very much less useful.
I suspect it's just in error.

Another one for Simon.

[badhabum]

OK, a cantabrian has his move reduced by 1 BW when doing a prompted action + gets a -1 on the dice when skirmishing or running away

As skirmishing is a prompted action, how far may it go away ? 6 MU - 1MU - 2 MU ..so a basic of 3 MU before rolling the die with another - 1 ? no wonder cantabrian might be considered suicide

[lionheartrjc]

The -1BW on movement only applies to prompted actions.  Skirmishing or running away is not a prompted action, so only the -1 on a dice applies.  Therefore an average cantabrian unit choosing to skirmish moves as follows:
6 - 4 BW
5 - 4 BW
4 - 4 BW
3 - 3 BW
2 - 2 BW
1 - 1 BW.

This compares to a SuG without cantabrian:
6 - 5 BW
5 - 4 BW
4 - 4 BW
3 - 4 BW
2 - 3 BW
1 - 2 BW

[badhabum]

Sorry,, Could you have a look at this conversation

https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=193.0

From that thread I understood that the first SK or Run Away decision was a prompted move...so could things be clarified ?

How many skirmishes do we have in one phase

Run Away and SK prompted moves or not ?

What about SK in terrain : do they get a run away if it is the second charge ....as the move is not mandatory

What about SK in terrain during the first charge if not mandatory what impact for a cantabrian unit ...how far would it move as the movement has to be prompted

There are tournaments in a few weeks ....

[lionheartrjc]

Sorry,, Could you have a look at this conversation

https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=193.0

From that thread I understood that the first SK or Run Away decision was a prompted move...so could things be clarified ?

How many skirmishes do we have in one phase

Run Away and SK prompted moves or not ?

What about SK in terrain : do they get a run away if it is the second charge ....as the move is not mandatory

What about SK in terrain during the first charge if not mandatory what impact for a cantabrian unit ...how far would it move as the movement has to be prompted

There are tournaments in a few weeks ....

No - the thread does not say that a Skirmish or Run Away move is a prompted action.  It simply restricts the number of moves that can be made.  Skirmish or Run Awsy moves are Outcome moves.

Richard

[badhabum]

Apologies all .... i picked up the 2018 rather than the 2019 clarry to add to  . 

This is the full version - see latest clarry stream.  So yes you can MF expand and then break off.  And you can repeat run away from a charge.  And you can be pushed around in movement as per 9.3 as per RJC comment. I will find a tidier way for vs2.

Second Run Aways by SuGs
"HOW MANY "MOVES" per TURN
·      An UG may only make a single Prompted Action, Free or Forced Charge, Run Away or Skirmish per turn with the exception of :
o   MF1, MF2 moves in their Movement or Fighting Phases - where you can do as you have cards for to adapt when in a fight.
o   If Skirmishing or Running Away, then M2, M9 and M10 moves can be used to move forward/backwards up to 2BW to a preferred position.
·      Any number of Outcome moves can be taken (i.e. involuntary moves such as routs, being pushed back etc.)."
ADD
1. All Action in the Fighting phase and EoT phase - these can always be done after making an earlier PA.
2. Troops who stopped Force charges may then make another action later in the turn.
3. Second or further enforced Run Away moves by SuGs charged by TuGs (these are in fact outcome moves as involuntary with no choice)."

Ok so from the thread I mentionned here is the answer from Simon.

You may make only ONE sk or run away move but as many enforced second run away moves  as they are unvoluntary ...which to me says that the first move is prompted . Please can someone clarify this ?

[marshalney2000]

Not sure that says that at all. First time you have choice of whether to skirmish or run away but after that you can only run away. In no way does it suggest that the first evade is a prompted move.

[stuuk]

Not to be a dick, but if you have a separate question, please use a separate thread or else things get very confusing.

This was a specific query about cantabrian which is still to be answered fully.

[badhabum]

Sorry posted again in another thread 

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Answered there.

Cantabrian comment is a redundant legacy remnant.  Should have been removed in 2018!!    I'll take it out now as follows therefore ...

4.   Troops in Cantabrian cannot Charge, Countercharge or Intercept, and if charged they must Run Away or Skirmish (note they have a -1 on the variable move dice when doing this).
5.   If contacted they immediately revert to normal formation.

Note point 5 defines when it comes out of Cantabrian.
Any reasonable way of showing they are in it is fine in practice.

Si