Lancers with bow

[stuuk]

Are no longer impetuous according to the 2019 changes - they do not have to force charge owing to having a bow and being able to use it instead.
Does this also apply to charge only bow?

Sure they must have a bow so it would seem to apply, but since they only use it when they charge I am unsure.

[lionheartrjc]

A bow is a missile weapon, even if it is Charge-Only - so it does not have a forced charge.  I must admit I had not picked up on that subtlety, I am not sure if it was what Simon intended or not.

Richard

[marshalney2000]

I was also wondering about this. Must admit that if shooting was charge only then they should get a free charge and also be forced to charge if within 3 MUs. The alternative seems a bit cheesy as the shooting and the charge are part of the same process.

[Hunter]

Oh Crickey - that would extend to charge only javelins as well and bring in the forced charge at 1 BW rule.   FWIW I think it should be shoot and charge only = pay for charge and forced charge at 1BW as there aren't enough missile weapons to hand to qualify as bona fide shooters.
HH

[nikgaukroger]

A bow is a missile weapon, even if it is Charge-Only - so it does not have a forced charge.  I must admit I had not picked up on that subtlety, I am not sure if it was what Simon intended or not.

Richard

Pretty sure this is an unintended consequence. IMO Lancers with charge only bow should have the same forced/free charges as lancers without missiles.

Perhaps the rule change should be amended to "Any UG with missile weapons, other than as Charge Only, does not have to Forced Charge (but may Free Charge) ?

[nikgaukroger]

Oh Crickey - that would extend to charge only javelins as well and bring in the forced charge at 1 BW rule.   FWIW I think it should be shoot and charge only = pay for charge and forced charge at 1BW as there aren't enough missile weapons to hand to qualify as bona fide shooters.
HH

Charge Only is about tactical doctrine and not missile supply.

[lionheartrjc]

Oh Crickey - that would extend to charge only javelins as well and bring in the forced charge at 1 BW rule.   FWIW I think it should be shoot and charge only = pay for charge and forced charge at 1BW as there aren't enough missile weapons to hand to qualify as bona fide shooters.
HH

No - Shoot & Charge Javelins (assuming they are not CL/DC) are definitely missile weapon armed so always pay for charging, no free charges.
Battle chariots that shoot and charge get no forced charges but get free charge with 3BW directly ahead.
Charging lancers or devastating chargers with missile weapons lose the forced charge but get free charge within 3BW directly ahead.

Richard

[Hunter]

Ah well that's clear enough I guess.

[jasonbroomer]

Shoot & Charge Lc are very expensive without this privilege IMHO

[stuuk]

Good point Jason, I guess we'll need to wait for Simon to validate the intent.

[nikgaukroger]

Shoot & Charge Lc are very expensive without this privilege IMHO

Nothing wrong with it for standard Shoot & Charge types - makes sense as they are "dual doctrine" if you like - so no Forced Charge, but a Free Charge makes perfect sense.

The odd one is the ones like Byzantines who are Charge Only, Bow as they are chargers by doctrine, the missiles are part of the charge process. IMO these should still be Forced Charge.

[stuuk]

It is exactly Byzantine which prompted the question
I have to agree (despite this disadvantaging my nice army) that since the game makes shooting just prior to charge their tactic of choice, it makes little sense that they are allowed to also stand off and shoot  (which they cannot do).