2026 Proposed amendment: 5.5 Supporting files do not downgrade v Pike, Spear etc

[AlecJH]

A friend & I just had a first game (Roman v Seleucid 190 BCE) using the proposed 2026 amendments which on the whole all seemed to improve the game.

One unexpected thing that came out of it was in respect of amendment 5.5 regarding the 'not downgrading overlaps' rule v Pike etc. We had a melee between some legionary TUGs and a couple of spear-armed Thureophoroi TUGs who were both deployedside-by-side four wide and two deep. As the melee progressed a couple of 'internal' gaps appeared in the Thureophoroi ranks where both the bases had been destroyed (as the Romans had the melee expert characteristic which negated the Spear combat claim when in one rank this happened quite quickly once a base had been lost). The new rule meant that these "internal" overlaps were super effective and resulted in the Thureophoroi being rapidly polished off.

As I understand it the idea of the not downgrading is to make players deploy pike blocks etc in wide blocks with guarded flanks which is all well and good but I wonder whether the above effect has been considered? This also occurred against the Seleucid pike phalanx, it just took a bit longer to manifest due to the extra depth of the pike-armed TUGs.

[nikgaukroger]

The effect was indeed considered.

[badhabum]

Roman legionaries are never too weak just a bit overpowered ...ok I'll flee 

[Kokor Hekkus]

Committing a general a overlap files in the above example makes it extremely powerful, green to yellow, as opposed to the white of the previous overlap rule.

[steads]

Committing a general a overlap files in the above example makes it extremely powerful, green to yellow, as opposed to the white of the previous overlap rule.

Bound to miss then!!

[lionheartrjc]

General in a supporting file against Pike, Long Spear or Spear.

This isn't in the rules currently, but in my opinion, a general fighting in a supporting file should be at risk if the base of the file being supported is killed (as if the general was in the main file).

Richard

[Kokor Hekkus]

Committing a general a overlap files in the above example makes it extremely powerful, green to yellow, as opposed to the white of the previous overlap rule.

Bound to miss then!!

Correct generals yellow dice blanked two times out of 3 fights 😀😉

[Kokor Hekkus]

General in a supporting file against Pike, Long Spear or Spear.

This isn't in the rules currently, but in my opinion, a general fighting in a supporting file should be at risk if the base of the file being supported is killed (as if the general was in the main file).

Richard

Risk to general sounds fair

[steads]

General in a supporting file against Pike, Long Spear or Spear.

This isn't in the rules currently, but in my opinion, a general fighting in a supporting file should be at risk if the base of the file being supported is killed (as if the general was in the main file).

Richard

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I hope this does not come to pass. Directing operations from nearby is not the same as fighting in the main engaged front rank and rarely adds anything to the combat outcome.

[nikgaukroger]

Think I'd go with to provide the fighting in the front rank the generals must be in the fighting file and not a supporting file.

[lionheartrjc]

Think I'd go with to provide the fighting in the front rank the generals must be in the fighting file and not a supporting file.

I'd be quite happy with that.

[badhabum]

And make generals cheaper ? I am happy with them encouraging a supporting file

[Rino]

a single rank hoplite with spear VS spearmen for instance suffer from supporting files not degrading at all.
That means they are in a worse situation than a unit with no weapon at all.

=> Can they drop the spear?

We run several games with that amendment. Invariably the hoplite got butchered, while we don't see any significant incentive in terms of budget vs melee expert.

It totally killed interest of running any Greek style army.

=> What has been the feedback from the players so far?

[badhabum]

If they are vs spearmen at melee they are better

But vs ME infantry they are worse we agree . My feeling is it is a problem as there are many ME armies ...romans are but also sea people, many biblicals so I wonder if the change is good

[nikgaukroger]

=> Can they drop the spear?

No.

We run several games with that amendment. Invariably the hoplite got butchered, while we don't see any significant incentive in terms of budget vs melee expert.

It totally killed interest of running any Greek style army.

=> What has been the feedback from the players so far?

My take so far.

Last 2 comps I've played have have had a good number of Spear/Long Spear/Pikemen - I've used and faced these and IMO the changes work, but you do need to think about them, and how they interact with unit sizes. For example I found my Akkadian LSp infantry perfectly usable and effective at BadCon (they'd have been more so as Spear rather than LSp in that theme amusingly), and facing off against Pk and Spear at Kent Clash I thought them also perfectly good an effective, and when used in larger unit sizes better than they were before.

Didn't play Beachhead which also featured lists with Spear and Pk.