DRAFT army lists to accompany 2026 list changes

[Kokor Hekkus]

Pyrrhic (2414) Hopilites still listed as long spear

[lionheartrjc]

Pyrrhic (2414) Hopilites still listed as long spear

Corrected. Thanks.

[nikgaukroger]

Think the Syrian Byzantine LSp Skoutatoi are missing the 9 base option.

[lionheartrjc]

Think the Syrian Byzantine LSp Skoutatoi are missing the 9 base option.

Corrected.

[badhabum]

A question about the spartan Hippeis : they must be in the CIC command OK but you confirm he may not be a floating commander if with the Hippeis only ? I ask because in so many army it is the case so I want to be sure it's not an omission

[lionheartrjc]

A question about the spartan Hippeis : they must be in the CIC command OK but you confirm he may not be a floating commander if with the Hippeis only ? I ask because in so many army it is the case so I want to be sure it's not an omission

Thanks - I will add the floating commander bit.

[badhabum]

Thank you

[nikgaukroger]

In the Three Kingdoms PDF

Gaya Korean - Conscript LSp do not have a 9 base option.

Baekje Koran - the troop sections of the list are missing and the ones from Xianbei Kingdoms is there instead.

[nikgaukroger]

Tang PDF

Gokturk elephants and the Hephthalite ones also allowed do not have the escorts option; maybe deliberate for the former but seems odd for the latter as their own list allows them.

[Doomsmile]

Any chance that Chinese armies with the the ability to combine their archers and polearms into mixed units (such as Later Warring States 4205 and Western Han 4211) could have the "All or none" restrictions lifted? Or are there a specific reasons to believe that conventional blocks of close fighters were never used when anti-cavalry archer formations were deployed?

[Doomsmile]

Ooh!I love new list day!!!
I hope it's okay that I gave what's available a readthrough, and have made an obnoxious volume of some notes.

{A few of these comments are not related to the proposed 2026 changes; I've marked these out in squiggly brackets to separate them out a bit}


[1204: Minoan]
Minoan longspears are still in UGs of 6 or 8 with no option to purchase in 9s.
(These TUGs far predate "proto-hoplites" that begin showing up later, so I assume they're meant to remain longspears)
[RJC Corrected]

[1216: Trojan War Achaean]
Nestor's Pylian Spearmen with longspears are still in UGs of 6 or 8 with no option to purchase 9.
(Like the Minoans, these guys don't seem to be some kind of super-early hoplites, so I assume they're intended to still be longspear)
[RJC Corrected]

{Tangent: that gorram Wooden Horse. So... If the horse is two BWg elements glued side-to-side with each other, is it allowed to take all four of its bow shots to the same side? Because it's Tribal, there's virtually zero odds of it having enemies to either side of it to get all of its shots that way.
Perhaps it might be better to reflect the Wooden Horse by instead allowing up to two TUGs of Achaean infantry to take the "Mounted Infantry" characteristic, representing them surprise-attacking from the horse as a flank march.}


[1217: Trojan War Trojans]
{Tangent: Shouldn't Trojan heroes dismount from their chariots as superior/shortspear/melee expert as their at their Achaean counterparts do? It's not like the Trojan heroes were consistently crushed by their Achaean counterparts every time they took to the field as far as I'm aware.}


[2313: Old Saxon]
The changes note on this list says "Dismountable" and really threw me. Would it be possible to amend this note to "nobles no longer mounted infantry" or something to avoid confusing dopes like me? XP
[RJC Corrected]

[2315: Thrungii]
See above note for Old Saxons. Yes, I'm dumb enough to have fallen for this twice. X|
[RJC Corrected]

[3203: Middle Post-Romam Britain]
{Tangent: Could we kindly get Arthur's Companions upgraded to Exceptional? I mean, if we're going to include them, they should probably be a step up from the noble Cavalry of their rough contemporaries, right?}


[3209: Viking]
{This is not a new issue, but I thought I'd mention it here: Berzerkers added to huscarl/hird TUGs don't have enough DC stands to trigger devastating chargers' claims. Is this intentional, or should berzerkers be given a note that they may benefit from devastating chargers' charge claims without a second DC rank behind them?}



[4202-4205: Warring States Chinese]
Early and Middle Warring states close fighters are classed as longspear in 6,8, or 9 stand units, while contemporary Qin armies are 6 or 8 stand polearms (with Devastating Chargers) as is the case only in the later warring states list.
Is this intentional? Or should pre-326BCE Qin close fighters be classed as longspear+devastating in 6,8, or 9 stand units for consistency?


[4305: Baekje Korean]
The notes and battles sections are present, but the army list is missing.
[RJC Corrected]

[4311: Goguryo Koran]
Yameak Spearmen (a pike upgrade to longspears) are currently only fieldable in UGs of 8. Should this be amended to 8 or 9 to better match with Goguryo Spearmen and Silla "Red Banner" pikemen?
[RKC Corrected]

[4610: Ikko Ikki]
With the command restrictions on Veterans and Religious Fanatics, it's likely for commands to have more Fanatics than generals. Would it be possible to allow religious fanatics to count their fanatic quality without a general present?

{Tangent: My club tends to slam face-first into an Abbot and Costello routine every these guys hit the table; trying to communicate which religious fanatics are fanatics and which religious fanatics are not fanatics, even though they're still religious fanatics despite not being fanatics. Could these TUGs be renamed "Religious Zealots" instead to clean that up?)


[5506: Early Hundred Years War English]
English knights are listed as dismounting with the Shieldwall quality. Is this correct?
[RJC=Oops, missed that one. No. Corrected.]


[6110: Canari]
Canari Best Warriors now lose access to optional melee expert when armored: is this intentional?

Canari Best Warriors with melee expert as a half-step quality improvement cancel opposing Spear claims in one rank, causing their half-step quality improvement to essentially double-count itself. Either South American Spears should remain Longspears or Best Warriors should be made Superior instead of melee expert to avoid this strange interaction.


[6114: Inca Empire]
Veteran Aucaruna gaining Melee Expert as a half-step quality increase interacts strangely Spear reclassification of Canari, Chanka, and Columbian warriors to Spear. (The veterans' melee expert both increases their melee claims and cancels Spear in one rank, allowing the veterans' half-step quality improvement to essentially double-count itself).
Either these Veteran TUGs should be reclassified as Superior, or South American Spears should remain Longspears in order to avoid strange interactions with veteran troops.
(Unless Inca Humaminca hearth troops were more different from Aucaruna in equipment or performance than the list lets on, the same strange interaction with Spear applies to them too)


[6306: Hawaiian]
With the "default" unit size of pike TUGs increasing to 9, should Hawaiian Kapa-kaua pikemen have their maximum increased from 24 to 27 to allow fielding three TUGs of 9? (They could previously field three TUGs of 8 when that was the "default" pike UG size)
[RJC Corrected]

[nikgaukroger]

I'm sure RJC will comment on most of these, but I'll stick my oar in on a few things.

{Tangent: that gorram Wooden Horse. So... If the horse is two BWg elements glued side-to-side with each other, is it allowed to take all four of its bow shots to the same side? Because it's Tribal, there's virtually zero odds of it having enemies to either side of it to get all of its shots that way.
Perhaps it might be better to reflect the Wooden Horse by instead allowing up to two TUGs of Achaean infantry to take the "Mounted Infantry" characteristic, representing them surprise-attacking from the horse as a flank march.}

No they cannot get 4 shots to the same side.

If you want to better reflect the Wooden Horse it'd get removed from the list as not a feature of set piece battle - its a bit of colour for fun really.

[3209: Viking]
{This is not a new issue, but I thought I'd mention it here: Berzerkers added to huscarl/hird TUGs don't have enough DC stands to trigger devastating chargers' claims. Is this intentional, or should berzerkers be given a note that they may benefit from devastating chargers' charge claims without a second DC rank behind them?}

It is deliberate. They still get the ability to do Shatter. However, with the altered rules on Shatter/Shove it may be worth a think.

[4610: Ikko Ikki]
With the command restrictions on Veterans and Religious Fanatics, it's likely for commands to have more Fanatics than generals. Would it be possible to allow religious fanatics to count their fanatic quality without a general present?

It is a deliberate feature.

[badhabum]

The achean wooden horse is very useful to help protect flanks

[nikgaukroger]

Late Medieval German (5620) militia pikemen have 19 bases allowed which seems a peculiar number - is it meant to be 18 as per the pikemen?

[RJC Corrected]

[badhabum]

Trying to follow the evolution so we still are missing 71 and 72 ? correct