Loose vs Close order foot

[Hayung_is]

In many ways, I like that MeG doesn't over emphasise the difference of these two troops when facing off and shove seems a reasonable representation of the pro.

However, it does seem odd that when I'm using loose order troops in the open, I actively want to face off against troops that already have shove if I have to choose to nullify any difference. It would seem logical that troops already prone to the shove type bonus would be even better placed against loose order troops.

I was wondering if this was intentional or just considered too niche or too difficult to balance?
Upgrading from shove to a straight +1 claim does seem a bit too far.

[tarnowski1]

or take it from the point of view that any close order foot can push around loose order foot so its inbuilt but it takes a well trained close order footman to push everyone around (barring elephants, barricades etc). A shove is a shove after all. its knowing when to shove.

[LawrenceG]

Troops in a single rank with the Shove characteristic can still shove loose infantry.

So the loose troops are worse off than against normal close infantry, and shove infantry are better than non-shove infantry against loose infantry.

OK, the shove infantry don't care whether they are fighting close or loose infantry, but there are other occasions in the game when a characteristic doesn't give you any benefit. Troops with 2HCC don't care if they are fighting fully armoured or protected troops, for example. Put it down to not being a big enough difference to make a difference in the game.

[Hayung_is]

haha I suppose the game doesn't need to give you less reason to run loose foot either.

[LawrenceG]

One effect I noticed was when my flex foot emerged from terrain, if faced by shove infantry they didn't bother changing to close.