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Author Topic: Warring states Chinese Allies  (Read 595 times)

AntiokosIII

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Warring states Chinese Allies
« on: June 09, 2024, 07:45:38 PM »
I notice with puzzlement that none of the 3 Warring States or Qin lists permit allies. The period was, or so I thought, famous for shifting alliances among the states. May one designate an Internal ally to be a force from an allied state (for example a Wei army with a Zhao internal ally) ? I expect I am being even denser than usual about this.
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lionheartrjc

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Re: Warring states Chinese Allies
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2024, 08:36:23 PM »
I think this is a fair criticism of the list.  Qin probably should be able to have a Later Warring States ally and the Later Warring States should probably be able to have a Qin or two Later Warring States allies.

Richard

nikgaukroger

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Re: Warring states Chinese Allies
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2024, 09:00:34 PM »
I'm not so convinced. Alliances at the strategic level were common, however, I am less sure that these resulted in actual battlefield cooperation - so you might get 2 states invading a third, but their armies would act independently.

Qin may be different in that they incorporated defeated enemies into their army - but may that just be slightly different troops to native Qin ones?

That said, my real interest with China starts with the Han so I may well be barking up the wrong tree here.
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lionheartrjc

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Re: Warring states Chinese Allies
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2024, 09:15:45 PM »
As well as strategic alliances there are several battles recorded where the force was made up of troops from more than one state.  This would seem to qualify as allies.
This includes a Qin battle with a state before they were conquered.  Certainly worth investigating further.

nikgaukroger

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Re: Warring states Chinese Allies
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2024, 09:40:43 PM »
You've been trawling through battles recently so will know better than I  ;D
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AntiokosIII

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Re: Warring states Chinese Allies
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2024, 11:57:59 PM »
Thanks guys
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nikgaukroger

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Re: Warring states Chinese Allies
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2024, 06:15:29 AM »
May one designate an Internal ally to be a force from an allied state (for example a Wei army with a Zhao internal ally) ?

Given that other than the Qin having their own list there are no real state dependent options in the Warring States list this works if you want to see your army as an alliance.

Some further research could identify some differences that the current lists miss I guess.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."