Pure X/Bow Tugs and Spear formations

[Hayung_is]

Hey all,

Just wondering how to use these effectively? The chinese armies I'm keen to try have them as separate UGs rather than mixed, which seem much more straightforward to use.

One option was to alternate the bow and spear and I had a query. If they were in a line - could the spear declare intercepts/countercharge to protect the bow but could the bow still shoot - either at the chargers, or possible at supporting files during the shooting phase?

I'm just not sure how to get mileage out of formed bowmen without relying on falling back moves.

[lionheartrjc]

I'll answer your rule queries first.

If you have a mixed line of bow and spear, the spear can countercharge or intercept but cannot start or move within 1BW from all enemy TuGs. The bow will probably not be able to shoot in the charge phase (the enemy would have to be within 1BW - in which case they might press forward into the bow defeating the point of countercharging or intercepting), but may get a shot during the shooting phase.

If you get it right, the benefits of shooting into the melee can be effective, but bear in mind that the opponent's supporting files may be contributing to the melee combat.

As the rules currently are, falling back is still an effective tactic for bowmen.  It is something I would really like to see altered in a future edition (quite a few years away!) making formed bowmen more effective at slowing down opponents and not allowing them to shoot and fall back.

As regular listeners to the podcast will be aware, I am firm believer in protected bow and generally don't downgrade the quality and or shooting skill of my bowmen and crossbowmen.  At the competition last weekend I did quite well with 3 TuGs of 6 protected experienced crossbow in my Aragonese army.  They combined well with my knights and almogavars.
As far as Chinese armies go, I have had some success with Tang, but these use Fubing mixed units which are quite tough and work somewhat differently.

[AntiokosIII]

I'll answer your rule queries first

As the rules currently are, falling back is still an effective tactic for bowmen.  It is something I would really like to see altered in a future edition (quite a few years away!) making formed bowmen more effective at slowing down opponents and not allowing them to shoot and fall back.

I heartily endorse this idea. It has been extensively discussed at our local club for quite awhile and I know of no one who disagree with you. From your lips to Simon’s ears!

[Hayung_is]

I'll answer your rule queries first.

If you have a mixed line of bow and spear, the spear can countercharge or intercept but cannot start or move within 1BW from all enemy TuGs. The bow will probably not be able to shoot in the charge phase (the enemy would have to be within 1BW - in which case they might press forward into the bow defeating the point of countercharging or intercepting), but may get a shot during the shooting phase.

If you get it right, the benefits of shooting into the melee can be effective, but bear in mind that the opponent's supporting files may be contributing to the melee combat.

As the rules currently are, falling back is still an effective tactic for bowmen.  It is something I would really like to see altered in a future edition (quite a few years away!) making formed bowmen more effective at slowing down opponents and not allowing them to shoot and fall back.

As regular listeners to the podcast will be aware, I am firm believer in protected bow and generally don't downgrade the quality and or shooting skill of my bowmen and crossbowmen.  At the competition last weekend I did quite well with 3 TuGs of 6 protected experienced crossbow in my Aragonese army.  They combined well with my knights and almogavars.
As far as Chinese armies go, I have had some success with Tang, but these use Fubing mixed units which are quite tough and work somewhat differently.

Thanks for the comprehensive response!

How did you use the crossbowmen aragonese army? Protecting flanks or did you have them near the front line to soften troops for your own combat troops?

[lionheartrjc]

Thanks for the comprehensive response!

How did you use the crossbowmen aragonese army? Protecting flanks or did you have them near the front line to soften troops for your own combat troops?

In my game against Frisians there was a wood in the middle of the table.  I sent my Almogavars through the wood and used the crossbow to protect their flanks with the knights on the wings.
In my game against Catalan Company in Anatolia I was a bit more aggressive (given the enemy Almogavars were unprotected and the battlefield fairly open) but still kept the knights close by.
Against the 100 Years War English my main aim was to try and avoid getting shot at without being able to shoot back.  With limited cards, I had to gamble on a charge from 5BW by my knights.  Fortunately my opponent, Matt, only managed 1 wound from 6 green dice and I took out two longbow units!   This allowed me to move up the crossbow to support the Almogavars.

Richard

[badhabum]

As the rules currently are, falling back is still an effective tactic for bowmen.  It is something I would really like to see altered in a future edition (quite a few years away!) making formed bowmen more effective at slowing down opponents and not allowing them to shoot and fall back.

I would agree that that tactic I used myself seems a bit Hollywoodian and very controversial as such tactics were unusual on an antique or medieval battlefield ( that I know of ). But what would the idea be : prohibit falling back if you shot or prohibit the fall back move for all infantry ? would it concern only infantry or mounted also

So yes I agree a change would be welcome.