Magna - Possible Army List Change

[lionheartrjc]

Proposal to change MAGNA army lists to allow Long Spear units in 6s as well as 4s.  Possibly also apply to some drilled units that do not have the melee expert characteristic.
Would welcome player thoughts on this.

To be clear, no plans to change any PACTO or MAXIMUS lists.

Richard

[AlecJH]

Assuming you are referring to infantry units I would support such a change. I have found that long spears in units of four get swept away quickly by devastating chargers in Magna, this change would go some way towards countering that.

Alternatively, and preferably, in order not to have an artificial difference between units keep them in fours and allow infantry long spear units in Magna to keep their +1 combat bonus when only one rank deep. This can be justified by the assumption that individual bases in Magna represent more men than bases in Maximus so are in more ranks.

[lionheartrjc]

Assuming you are referring to infantry units I would support such a change. I have found that long spears in units of four get swept away quickly by devastating chargers in Magna, this change would go some way towards countering that.

Alternatively, and preferably, in order not to have an artificial difference between units keep them in fours and allow infantry long spear units in Magna to keep their +1 combat bonus when only one rank deep. This can be justified by the assumption that individual bases in Magna represent more men than bases in Maximus so are in more ranks.

I am referring to infantry units.

If they kept their +1 combat bonus in melee combat they would be better than melee expert...  Doesn't seem justified.

Richard

[nikgaukroger]

Proposal to change MAGNA army lists to allow Long Spear units in 6s as well as 4s.  Possibly also apply to some drilled units that do not have the melee expert characteristic.
Would welcome player thoughts on this.

To be clear, no plans to change any PACTO or MAXIMUS lists.

Richard

This seems very sensible to me.

[Hayung_is]

Not a super experienced player but can attest to already wishing some long spear units came in 6s and then drop them out of the list when I had to field a 4.

They're a challenging characteristic - for the points paid you can find yourself outclassed, and even in ideal conditions, if you've lost your 2nd rank you're on evens, so allowing 6s gives the player some extra agency on the cost to performance.

[SteveO]

But the unintended consequence would be making them as big as late medieval pike keils.

[lionheartrjc]

Another possibility which is being looked at is having a specific MAGNA rule change so that  Long Spear in melee combat gets +1 in a single rank against any.  The second rank would (similar to pikes 4th ranks in Maximus) be regarded as an engaged base so that they couldn't be moved to create a new file.

Richard

[SteveO]

That might work😊

[Hayung_is]

Having played more maximum now and pondering on this more. I think Long spear (and potentially a couple other unit types) in magna need further review.

Why?
I really like maximus and how MeG plays at that size, but its not quick. To get broader market appeal people are going to be playing Magna and pacto more I think. Hence, these game systems need to play and feel balance while also transitioning into Maximus without too many different mechanics.

As such I think long spear either needs to be discounted, allowed as 6s or even both. I don't think allowing +1 in one rank is the way to go, due to the difference to maximus and how it changes performance relative to other claims.

[lionheartrjc]

Further to this topic, we are looking at the possibility of giving Long Spear +1 for a single rank but then changing the supporting file rule so that if a supporting file is supporting a file that is fighting against Long Spear then it wouldn't downgrade the colour.

Richard

[LawrenceG]

Why not simply allow foot LSp TUGs to be 5 bases?

Then not as big as pike keils, but able to tolerate the loss of 1 base without losing the combat factor.

[Hayung_is]

Further to this topic, we are looking at the possibility of giving Long Spear +1 for a single rank but then changing the supporting file rule so that if a supporting file is supporting a file that is fighting against Long Spear then it wouldn't downgrade the colour.

Richard

I don't think this the way to go. Both because its mechanically quite different to maximus, and is a very niche disadvantage - since Long spear can claim in 1 rank, they can expand to remove supporting files.

Why not simply allow foot LSp TUGs to be 5 bases?

Then not as big as pike keils, but able to tolerate the loss of 1 base without losing the combat factor.

I think keils smaller than they should be in magna (but its the structure of needing to have numbers that create a square, otherwise UGs aren't aesthetically pleasing). So I would use what I think is a closer comparison of Pikes in maximus.
Pikes Can only be 8, and are less maneuverable.
While Long spear
Can be 6 or 8, and their main advantage over pike is movement.

So in magna, I think you should be able to have long spear the same size as Pike, or the smaller 4 UG.  It presents the same type of decision making.