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Author Topic: Charge only shooting for forced chargers  (Read 1464 times)

AlecJH

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Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« on: December 16, 2023, 01:11:29 PM »
I just want to ask a question to get a bit of clarity on charging only shooting by a unit that is required to make a forced charge. e.g. one of the regraded warriors that now have charge only shooting and are within one base width of the enemy.

My opponent in a recent game to test out the new 2024 changes to barbarian warriors kindly pointed out that as I had three Gallic warrior TUGs within one base width of his infantry they had to force charge as they were charge only shooters and so not exempt from doing so and also because I hadn't announced the charge or held them in sub-phase 2.2 they would have to mark the charge in sub-phase 2.3 which meant they couldn't shoot either as that option is only listed in 2.2.

Now, it was entirely my fault for missing it so I could only blame myself but I thought I would post it here just to ask if this was the intention i.e. forced chargers marked in sub-phase 2.3 are not allowed to shoot prior to charging whereas forced chargers marked in 2.2 are.


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lionheartrjc

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2023, 03:16:55 PM »
Charges are declared in SP2.2.  They are only marked in SP2.3.

Charge-only shooters shoot when the charge is declared - so no they do not shoot if the charge isn't declared.  I always make it a point to agree with my opponent which charges are forced before charges are declared which avoids this sort of situation happening.

I would be pretty unimpressed with a player who didn't let you shoot even though you hadn't declared the charge, particularly if they were aware beforehand that the TuGs had a forced charge. The aim is for both players to enjoy the game.

Richard

AlecJH

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2023, 05:13:25 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.

I don’t blame my opponent as I was teaching him to play! Duh.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire

LawrenceG

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2023, 11:44:44 PM »
Given the above, is allowing shooting when a forced charge is "marked" under consideration for a future version?

It appears nothing is gained and the game is potentially made less enjoyable by not allowing it.

Or is something gained?

steads

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2023, 01:12:32 PM »
Given the above, is allowing shooting when a forced charge is "marked" under consideration for a future version?

It appears nothing is gained and the game is potentially made less enjoyable by not allowing it.

Or is something gained?

There could be a slight command (in)decision to be made.
If your opponent passes in the charge declaration phase and you want to shutdown their ability to subsequently declare a charge (or hold a forced charge), you can pass as well. This means your forced charges trundle off but don't get their shooting. Pretty niche, but I have used the Pass-then-forced-charges a few times to prevent potential enemy charges/holds that I wanted to pause/deny.

Onurbm

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2023, 01:30:46 PM »

Sorry, dont appreciate this trickster's approach, will always allow opponent to declare charge and have his shots .

maybe a small ammendment to the text might solve this ... automatic charge , automatically trigger all features of a declared charge ... ???
Bruno
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LawrenceG

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2023, 01:45:38 AM »
Given the above, is allowing shooting when a forced charge is "marked" under consideration for a future version?

It appears nothing is gained and the game is potentially made less enjoyable by not allowing it.

Or is something gained?

There could be a slight command (in)decision to be made.
If your opponent passes in the charge declaration phase and you want to shutdown their ability to subsequently declare a charge (or hold a forced charge), you can pass as well. This means your forced charges trundle off but don't get their shooting. Pretty niche, but I have used the Pass-then-forced-charges a few times to prevent potential enemy charges/holds that I wanted to pause/deny.
Players could still use this trick (and without losing own shoot and charge, yay!) to prevent potential enemy charges/holds that they want to pause/deny. They couldn't use it to stop opponents using their shoot and charge, though.

ShrubMiK

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2023, 08:53:58 AM »
Does that really count as a trick? The same principle applies during normal movement. If you still have things you want to do, passing is a risk you would presumably be taking to gain advantage by making the opponent do something first. If it doesn’t work out, tough sh1t :)

In similar vein, declaring your forced charges can be useful in order to stall before you make a decision on one really critical charge.

Or am I missing something?

I am on the fence regarding whether an undeclared forced charge should also get to do charge & shoot. There is an argument that they should, for consistency. There may also be an argument that they are charging in a hastier, less organised and planned fashion, so do not take the opportunity to shoot.

LawrenceG

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2023, 10:07:35 AM »
I think the argument that they should is because shooting is what they do when they charge - it's their "method" or "battle drill".

richard

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2024, 08:43:52 AM »
Seems fair to allow the Charge only shooter to do so when its a forced charge declared or not. Also appreciate the brinkmanship of shutting down the charge declarations.

Charge only shooters do so at white dice?

nikgaukroger

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2024, 10:06:41 AM »
Charge only shooters do so at white dice?

They shoot as Experienced shooters; this will often be a White die but not always depending on target protection, cover, shooter depth, etc. as with any other shooting.
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PUNCH

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2024, 07:41:20 PM »

Sorry, dont appreciate this trickster's approach, will always allow opponent to declare charge and have his shots .

maybe a small ammendment to the text might solve this ... automatic charge , automatically trigger all features of a declared charge ... ???

It happened for me this weekend at IWC 2024, Martin had mixed knights with "shoot and charge " Polish crossbowmen , green dice on my unprotected almughavars  :)

I just have a question after all I read above :" why using a turn sequence if we don't follow it ?  ;)


Gilles

lionheartrjc

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2024, 07:21:25 AM »
To clarify my earlier comment - it is the fact that the opponent wasn't aware it was a forced charge and then taking an advantage is the aspect I would be unimpressed with.  If the opponent is aware and then fails to declare the charges (particularly as no cards are required), then that is an entirely different matter.

My view is at the start of declaring charges it is good etiquette to clarify which units do have forced charges.

Richard

Onurbm

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Re: Charge only shooting for forced chargers
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2024, 09:21:48 AM »
…  :D. Good etiquette …
Bruno
La question n’est pas de savoir si nous aurons le temps mais bien , ce que nous allons faire avec le temps qui nous est imparti .
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