Break 0ff - Fleet of foot

[Ambiorix]

Hi, according to the rules 'fleet of foot' does not apply when doing a break off.

Had today following situation :

EL fighting Swiss pike with fleet of foot.
So it is clear Pike cannot break off against EL, but quid El, can EL break off in this case (i.e. does Fleet of Foot applies here,
is EL faster or equal speed in this case, if the latter it cannot break off).

Thx for the clarification.

[nikgaukroger]

"... use Skirmisher movement distances except when doing a break off."

They are not doing a break off (in your example the nellies are), therefore, they use skirmisher movement distance. So no break off for the nellies IMO.

[Ambiorix]

ok, so we played it correctly, just wanted to make sure .
Even if humans can never outrun EL (especially when wearing Swiss armour) 

[lionheartrjc]

Hardly a historical match up - so one that I am not going to worry about.  Sorry.

Richard

[badhabum]

Hardly a historical match up - so one that I am not going to worry about.  Sorry.

Richard

OK we do not worry about 4 MU moving Nellies BUT now let us imagine that the swiss keil remains a swiss keil with fleet of foot and that the opponent is a TUG,  4 MU moving very fully tribal armoured knights ( as per some german lists ), we all agree they may not break off ! and it might be historical ! 

[nikgaukroger]

Which has nothing to do with Ambiorix's nellies/human relative speeds which is what RJC was commenting on.

And just to forestall the inevitable obvious follow up - the deep German formations are a great example of a formation that is inherently difficult to manoeuvre (hence Tribal) and so breaking off in this situation isn't really going to be a goer.

[badhabum]

Which has nothing to do with Ambiorix's nellies/human relative speeds which is what RJC was commenting on.

IMO it has everything to do with it as the speed of both units are the same, classification as tribal is the same and the answer that is needed is not, sorry : oh this is not historical but OH did we play the rules correctly !

Sorry but it is not me who missed the point ! The question was about RULES not historicity  ( still friendly do not worry )

The point that is important is that "fleet of foot" must be taken into account if you want to beak off an opponent that has fleet of foot

So a swiss keil could break of  from a landsknecht UG based on F4 as it is same speed

But a landsknecht UG ( for exemple )  facing a swiss keil cannot break off as it is considered slower

[lionheartrjc]

UGs with Fleet of Foot cannot break off from an equivalent unit without fleet of foot - because Fleet of Foot movement distance DOES NOT count for break-offs.

However, a UG breaking off from a fleet of foot unit has to take the faster movement speed of the UG it is fighting into account when determining whether and which break off move it can complete.  All seems clear.  So cavalry that move 4BW wishing to break off from a fleet of foot unit (assume open terrain) will need to use an F4 - break off from equal speed enemy move.

[LawrenceG]

UGs with Fleet of Foot cannot break off from an equivalent unit without fleet of foot - because Fleet of Foot movement distance DOES NOT count for break-offs.

But F4 allows you to break off from equal speed enemy, doesn't it?

[nikgaukroger]

UGs with Fleet of Foot cannot break off from an equivalent unit without fleet of foot - because Fleet of Foot movement distance DOES NOT count for break-offs.

But F4 allows you to break off from equal speed enemy, doesn't it?

Indeed - unless you are Tribal.

[Jilu]

UGs with Fleet of Foot cannot break off from an equivalent unit without fleet of foot - because Fleet of Foot movement distance DOES NOT count for break-offs.

this i do not understand, so foot UG's with fleet of foot can never break off from other foot UG's without fleet of foot?
is this correct ?

[Ambiorix]

UGs with Fleet of Foot cannot break off from an equivalent unit without fleet of foot - because Fleet of Foot movement distance DOES NOT count for break-offs.

this i do not understand, so foot UG's with fleet of foot can never break off from other foot UG's without fleet of foot?
is this correct ?

Yes they can, but count as equal speed in that case (if tribal however, than it is not possible - as explained by LawrenceG above).

[Doomsmile]

UGs with Fleet of Foot cannot break off from an equivalent unit without fleet of foot - because Fleet of Foot movement distance DOES NOT count for break-offs.

But F4 allows you to break off from equal speed enemy, doesn't it?

Indeed - unless you are Tribal.

This does lead to the odd edge case that a fleet TUG can never break off from another fleet TUG, even using the F4 move.
(Not terribly likely to come up, but will likely really annoy someone when it does! )