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Author Topic: Clarification Shooting at Chargers  (Read 126 times)

rakkasan

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Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« on: October 14, 2021, 12:48:46 PM »
On page 155, section B:3 states "Any file that shoots in the charge phase - including having done a skirmish response but having had no viable way to shoot at the troops charging them"
it's not exactly clear what this phrase is referring to, is something missing?
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lionheartrjc

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2021, 03:44:49 PM »
It means that you cannot shoot in the shooting phase if you skirmished or ran away in the charge phase, whether you had the chance to shoot or not.

Richard

nikgaukroger

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2021, 04:45:56 PM »
Actually I think it is redundant - something left over that should have been removed in proof reading as the bit that says you cannot shoot in the shooting phase if you shot/evaded in the charge phase is covered in C3 first bullet.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

rakkasan

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2021, 07:04:32 PM »
thanks....that's what I figured, I asked because the syntax has caused some confusion here among players whose first language isn't english.

cheers!
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rakkasan

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2021, 09:15:08 AM »
I am inserting this situation that arose in yesterday's game as it pertains to the original subject:

A tug of lombard cavalry is facing a tug of sassanid asavaran, both declare a charge during sub-phase 2.2; during the sub-phase 2.6 it's the lombard cavalry that moves into contact against the asavaran. Is the Asavaran tug permitted to shoot against the charging lombards? My understanding would be no in that the asavaran declared a charge and the shooting sub-phase is prior to the movement sub-phase. Shooting would only be permitted by the Asavaran if they chose to stand to receive or skirmish/runaway, correct?

the following situations also came up yesterday and I'd just like to confirm:

1) If a unit has charged it may not move again during the movement phase, correct? (unless one of the four exceptions outlined on p. 80)

2) Is Cavalry only permitted to break off from infantry when playing pacto rules?

* I just realized that this is the author's section, I presume that further rules inquiries should be directed to the the player's section....sorry.

cheers!

« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 09:20:21 AM by rakkasan »
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tarnowski1

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2021, 09:31:37 AM »
shoot and charge shooting is carried out at the point that you declare the charge, it happens immediately in the sequence of alternatively declaring charges.

'The UG shoots immediately from its current position and range when they declare a charge.'

obviously if the Lombard cavalry were beyond 3BW you couldnt shoot using shoot and charge.

'1) If a unit has charged it may not move again during the movement phase, correct? (unless one of the four exceptions outlined on p. 80)'- my understanding also

'2) Is Cavalry only permitted to break off from infantry when playing pacto rules?' - Cavalry can break off from infantry in maximus , moves F2 to F4 on QRS
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 09:35:35 AM by tarnowski1 »

rakkasan

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2021, 09:43:35 AM »
Asavaran don't have the "shoot and charge" capability, it would be a defensive "shoot chargers" shot while being charged. My question is if they themselves have declared a charge does this nullify the possibility to shoot?

2) the pacto qrs only allows F2....so I am assuming that cavalry may not break off from cavalry (which would be permitted in maximus with F3-F4)

Cheers!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 10:03:39 AM by rakkasan »
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tarnowski1

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2021, 10:16:29 AM »
Asavaran don't have the "shoot and charge" capability, it would be a defensive "shoot chargers" shot while being charged. My question is if they themselves have declared a charge does this nullify the possibility to shoot?

2) the pacto qrs only allows F2....so I am assuming that cavalry may not break off from cavalry (which would be permitted in maximus with F3-F4)

Cheers!

as shooting at chargers happens prior to moving chargers in the sequence order I would say you are correct, if a UG without shoot and charge declares a charge it couldnt shoot at any point in the charge phase.

I've no experience with Pacto so no idea if thats an intended omission or accidental

LawrenceG

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2021, 10:56:28 AM »
So could a unit that declared a charge, but was charged by opponents before it executed its own charge, move in the movement phase?

tarnowski1

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2021, 11:04:19 AM »
So could a unit that declared a charge, but was charged by opponents before it executed its own charge, move in the movement phase?

I would say no, you made a prompted action with the UG, paid the card, even if they couldnt complete the move. Universal rule 14 still applies.

LawrenceG

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2021, 12:40:59 PM »
Well, you've prompted the action, but you haven't made the action.

badhabum

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2021, 03:08:56 PM »
If you declared a charge, even if for some reason you could not do it because you were intecepted or something like that you may not move during the movement phase .

rakkasan

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2021, 03:20:39 PM »
and the original question regarding the asavaran shooting?
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tarnowski1

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2021, 04:25:27 PM »
Well, you've prompted the action, but you haven't made the action.

ok, so if I had shoot and charge and declared a prompted charge, did my shooting but my opponent charges me first so I havent charged, can I make a move in the movement phase? should any casualties I caused be null and void? following your logic

tarnowski1

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Re: Clarification Shooting at Chargers
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2021, 04:27:44 PM »
and the original question regarding the asavaran shooting?

my second reply to you, in case you missed it in the diversion

Asavaran don't have the "shoot and charge" capability, it would be a defensive "shoot chargers" shot while being charged. My question is if they themselves have declared a charge does this nullify the possibility to shoot?

2) the pacto qrs only allows F2....so I am assuming that cavalry may not break off from cavalry (which would be permitted in maximus with F3-F4)

Cheers!

as shooting at chargers happens prior to moving chargers in the sequence order I would say you are correct, if a UG without shoot and charge declares a charge it couldnt shoot at any point in the charge phase.

I've no experience with Pacto so no idea if thats an intended omission or accidental