Rule book structure comments

Simon Meg-Meister · April 19, 2021, 10:11:14 AM

There has been some great feedback on FB about how great the game is, and how easy a read it is in language. But some constructive criticism about the structure and that it could be better.

As ever keen to learn and develop. So please post comments here for me to consolidate.

Examples of choices made that could be chosen differently:

a) Extensive intro chapters pre the rules. Good or bad? Keep all. Shift some to back of book? Drop some entirely?
b) Following phases - so shooting at chargers in the charge phase. Would it be better to have not phases but actions. So CHARGES and SHOOTING with shooting at chargers in the latter with all other shooting.

All feedback welcome. But best with examples and suggestions so Ic an garner more skills in it for the future.

Or it may just be some like one and others another...

The good news of course is the great game and well written is much more important.

Si

Si

Hunter · April 19, 2021, 12:12:17 PM

It's great as it is SI. You've played a blinder lad!

Agoz · April 19, 2021, 05:12:18 PM

I mentioned it on Facebook, but an index of keywords with page references would really make both learning and teaching the game much easier. It'd also be nice to have a complete summary of Pacto changes or the Pacto QRS included in the book.

Edit: As far as the actual structure of the book goes, I might suggest moving chapter 8 "Playing a Turn" after 9.8. Since the chapter is basically a truncated version of everything written in chapter 9 it doesn't make a whole lot of sense reading it if you haven't read through 9.1-9.8. I remember reading through it my first time through the book and not absorbing any of it because it referenced rules I hadn't read yet. Which lead to me being more confused later than I perhaps would have been if I had gotten more out of chapter 8.

Edit Edit: Maybe also move chapter 7 to after chapter 8 and 9 setting up terrain and deploying armies as something that a player is going to do after they've already created an army list; which in and of itself requires having read and understood chapter 9.

Simon Meg-Meister · April 20, 2021, 07:38:27 AM

Thanks for those Agoz.
imlet this run a bit and see what else comes up.

Si

Edouard De Caen · April 20, 2021, 01:11:54 PM

FrancisSmall made a great guide for Passing through that needs to be checked.
Topic: Guide to Passing Through Friends : https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1712.msg13036#msg13036

Rephrasing "9.3 H: Passing Through Friends." using Simon's answer in "Topic: Passing through Friends" plus adding the table in the above "Topic: Guide to Passing Through Friends" would surely facilitate comprehension.

Edouard

Glactophagos · April 24, 2021, 01:28:12 PM

I have to agree about the index. That would really help to find things quicker.

Francis Small · April 24, 2021, 09:04:23 PM

Index? Somebody mentioned an index?

I attached a copy of the index I did for DBM in a previous lifetime. This is an "expanded" index - with extensive cross-referencing and even tries to summarize the rule if simple enough. When I posted it on the DBM discussion board I got back exactly zero feedback, so I don't know if players found it useful or not. I still have the code (Perl, Word template with VBA) lying around that I used to generate the document from a data input file. Something to think about for MeG?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Francis Small · April 26, 2021, 05:00:37 AM

I think the current structure is fine. What the rules could use to bring it to the next level is a comprehensive top-level edit. I know a great deal of effort was put into proofreading the rules by the community (as described to me one of the editors), but proofing by sections has its limitations which is demonstrated by the current edition. Specifically, the numerous errors in cross-sectional references (about three dozen of these at my count), as well as a general tendency for some rules to be scattered throughout the rulebook and inconsistently stated in different sections. (Example 1: Procedural rules for aligning are on p.135 - but fail to include the 2 BW movement restriction on non-front bases which is only mentioned in the glossary entry for "align". Example 2: The rules for displacing friendly SuGs are described on both p. 80 and p. 114, but p. 80 fails to specify that you can't move the SuG so that it can charge a new enemy SuG. The rule on p. 80 tries to reference p. 114 - but the reference is to the wrong section.)

Some sections also need a re-write for clarity. To name a few, the passing through rules need to be redone. I think Nik or Richard said half his in-game questions are for aligning so that should be looked into. The rules on supporting files are difficult to grasp for non-standard alignments and I think could be greatly simplified if I understand them correctly.

Finally, a fine-tooth examination of the rules would correct errors such as the incorrect paragraph numbering on pp. 128-129, missing rules for stunned generals after p. 93, and apparently missing rules on how you can't have supporting files against barricades among others.

It would be best if someone other than the author be in charge of this, simply because the rules author is necessarily too close to their work. You really need a fresh brain that hasn't been steeped in the ruleset for years.

And one last comment....

THANKS FOR A BOFFO SET OF RULES SIMON!!!

The above comments can be filed under "Quibbles". I really like MeG, and look forward to playing it more when the covid times are past us.

badhabum · May 09, 2021, 10:17:12 AM

Ambushes : the rule for ambushes PG181 fails to be as precise as PG 69 Deployment zone where it is specified that ambushes allows TUG to be deployed in the outer 5 BW .

lionheartrjc · May 09, 2021, 10:48:46 AM

I have created an index for the MeG rules. It currently runs to 41 pages!
If Simon iis okay with it I hope it can be posted on the website.

Richard

Francis Small · May 20, 2021, 04:26:09 PM

Any luck with posting the index?

Ambiorix · May 21, 2021, 12:30:02 AM

yes please, an index would be very helpful !

lionheartrjc · May 21, 2021, 05:19:23 PM

It will be up on the Mortem et Gloriam website very soon.

Richard

Plantagenet · October 24, 2021, 07:12:15 AM

Agree totally with the comments posted by Francis. Plus, include ALL the ACTUAL terrain sizes for each of the game sizes in the book rather than have to flick through the book to find only the 10BW x 10BW size being mentioned, then to go to the terrain QRS to find it only then to be told you have divide the terrain sizes by 2/3 and round up for Magna. Far better to have all the actual terrain sizes in the book. The QRS should be a summary of what's in the rule book, not a replacement for it.

Simon Meg-Meister · January 20, 2022, 02:00:00 PM

Quote from: Plantagenet on October 24, 2021, 07:12:15 AM
Agree totally with the comments posted by Francis. Plus, include ALL the ACTUAL terrain sizes for each of the game sizes in the book rather than have to flick through the book to find only the 10BW x 10BW size being mentioned, then to go to the terrain QRS to find it only then to be told you have divide the terrain sizes by 2/3 and round up for Magna. Far better to have all the actual terrain sizes in the book. The QRS should be a summary of what's in the rule book, not a replacement for it.

We could do that but the philosophy was different when set up. hence the refer to QRS as you go through the rules. All the tables are in the book now of course.