Block moves - TuGs moving different distances in the same block move.

[GDP]

We had a discussion on whether Tugs moving as a block can move at different speeds/distances within the block move and could not agree.
The rules says
"No files in the block may move further than their maximum move distance, and all
TuGs follow the same action, limited by the speed of the slowest if the move keeps
them in the same block throughout. In most cases this is obvious but for some moves
it takes a bit of thought"

This is the move we were discussing where two Fleet of foot Tugs move one 2BW the other just over 3BW but still keep side to side base edge with each other.



So
TuGs can vary there move distance within the Block as long as its not faster than the slowest TuGs move distance.
Or
TuGs cannot vary there move distance within the Block and move the same distance as the  lowest/slowest  moved TuG's distance.

[Rino]

Hi Geoff,

If you want to make a block move of A and B together you need to consider that A+B is acting as a single TUG with max speed the lowest of A and B.
In your example if A max speed is 2 then A + B max speed will be 2.

Units can form a block if they start with contiguous bases.
So if A and B move independently (one of 2 and the second of 3 as per your exemple) and finish their move still contiguous one to another they can still act as a block for the next round.

[badhabum]

An interesting one !

My answer for a movement forward or backwars would be

TuGs cannot vary there move distance within the Block and move the same distance as the  lowest/slowest  moved TuG's distance.

But if A and B were drilled, and moved M11, did we not have somewhere an example where the front UG just turned and the second one turned and moved 1 MU to make a new block ?

[lionheartrjc]

I see no problem with the TUGs in a block move moving different distances as long as they are doing the same action, none move further than the distance of the slowest UG and that they start and end in at least partial edge contact.  They must of course obey the other restrictions for a block move.

Richard

[Jilu]

I see no problem with the TUGs in a block move moving different distances as long as they are doing the same action, none move further than the distance of the slowest UG and that they start and end in at least partial edge contact.  They must of course obey the other restrictions for a block move.

Richard

well yes, otherwise you cannot wheel in a blockmove

[steads]

I see no problem with the TUGs in a block move moving different distances as long as they are doing the same action, none move further than the distance of the slowest UG and that they start and end in at least partial edge contact.  They must of course obey the other restrictions for a block move.

Richard

I do not belief the requirement to end in partial edge contact is correct.
For example two 2x2 TUGs of mounted starting shoulder-to-shoulder may execute a turn 90 and then move 3BW as a block move: this will result in them no longer being in contact with each other as they are only 60mm deep when turned (there will be a 20mm gap between them). I know that this is intended functionality as Si has done this to me!

[lionheartrjc]

Hi Stephen,

On reflection, I think you are correct.  They certainly have to start in at least partial edge contact with each other.
The tutorial videos actually demonstrate that they don't have to finish in partial edge contact (thanks Bahdabum).

Richard

p.s. What Si may have done in the past is not in my experience always the best guidance!

[Ambiorix]

I see no problem with the TUGs in a block move moving different distances as long as they are doing the same action, none move further than the distance of the slowest UG and that they start and end in at least partial edge contact.  They must of course obey the other restrictions for a block move.

Richard

So for my understanding Richard, can you please confirm the following :
1.   This means in a block wheel for example of close and loose cav, the latter can still move its max distance of 5 BW if on the outer side of the wheel, while the close cav remains under 4BW movement?
This makes sense as in real practise, (in contemporary army drill) the men at the outer wheel always have to move much faster to catch up with the 'pivot' man.
2.   It is allowed during a block move to 'drop off' slower UGs (and/or SUGs ?) and even loose contact with the rest of the block, provided of course they all moved in the same direction ?

[badhabum]

So for my understanding Richard, can you please confirm the following :
1.   This means in a block wheel for example of close and loose cav, the latter can still move its max distance of 5 BW if on the outer side of the wheel, while the close cav remains under 4BW movement?
This makes sense as in real practise, (in contemporary army drill) the men at the outer wheel always have to move much faster to catch up with the 'pivot' man.

Perhaps not as pg 106 3 second bullet " no files in the block may move further than their maximum move distance, and all Tugs follow the same action, limited by the speed of the slowest if the move keeps them in the same block throughout"! So does that means you must conform to the slowest speed ?

And comparing to modern drill is perhaps not accurate but who knows what we really know 

Simon's input might be asked to know his intend when he wrote the rules

[grahambriggs]

Related to this - having checked the rule book - I can't see anything that says if you use a block move to do a wheel everything needs to wheel through the same angle. So if I wheel a block of, say, four TUGs I assume they can all wheel at different directions and (since that would put them out of contact) at different move distances.

Is there something I'm missing that would prevent this? Is it the intention?

[Francis Small]

Related to this - having checked the rule book - I can't see anything that says if you use a block move to do a wheel everything needs to wheel through the same angle. So if I wheel a block of, say, four TUGs I assume they can all wheel at different directions and (since that would put them out of contact) at different move distances.

This just all feels terribly, horribly wrong. If I have 2 UGs side-by-side and I do a "block" Turn 180° with Move, do you mean to say that one could move ahead and turn 180° and the other could immediately turn 180° and move? Insanity I say! Doesn't mean it's not legal, or that I won't take advantage of it if it's legal - but does that really fit into the spirit of a block move?

A problem with this I think is dealing with a block move involving a 90° turn which necessarily breaks up the block. It may be that in addressing that specific case, the rules opened the door to the "fireworks" block move where every UG does their own thing - as long as it sorta kinda can be explained as doing the same "action." But I can't imagine that a block move was intended to allow all the UGs do their own thing - wasn't it intended to allow multiple UGs do the same thing at a reduced cost? The trade off should be reduced freedom of action vs. reduced command cost. Even the original example seems to violate this spirit where different UGs move ahead different distances - it just feels to me like a cheesy exercise to get something for nothing via a loophole in the rule.

Whoops, gotta go. My wife reminded me I'm overdue for my next round of meds. 

[nikgaukroger]

I think by applying the first line in the Block Move section sensibly you can knock different wheels on the head - which I think is clearly not the intention. "A block move is where you action several UGs together to all do the same thing" - I would certainly rule that different wheels would mean they are not doing the same thing. So yes, I would not see "wheeling" as being the "thing" before people mention it, the "thing" would be, for example, a 45 degree wheel to the left. IMO that is obviously the intention and, to repeat myself, would rule as such if asked.

[grahambriggs]

I think by applying the first line in the Block Move section sensibly you can knock different wheels on the head - which I think is clearly not the intention. "A block move is where you action several UGs together to all do the same thing" - I would certainly rule that different wheels would mean they are not doing the same thing. So yes, I would not see "wheeling" as being the "thing" before people mention it, the "thing" would be, for example, a 45 degree wheel to the left. IMO that is obviously the intention and, to repeat myself, would rule as such if asked.

I'm only doing this to flag a loophole that might be in the rules before it comes up in games. Unfortunately your explanation, while clearly fine for club games, is not likely to work in competition. Yes, it says "all do the same thing". But then what is meant by "thing"? The "thing" you can do in movement is defined on page 86 - "...to make a prompted action...on the prompted action table". So looking at the table on page 82 it tells me: "M3 Advance with Wheel". I would contend that as long as each UG in the block is doing an M3 move there is nothing to say they have to wheel by the same amount. In fact this interpretation - that they just need to all do the same prompted action, is supported by the last bullet of page 106 that refers to "...all TUGs follow the same action..."

[nikgaukroger]

Unfortunately your explanation, while clearly fine for club games, is not likely to work in competition.

Well it clearly will where I am making the call 

But your point is well made. It may even be being looked into 

[Simon Meg-Meister]

Loophole in wording noted. And applauded as we want to tighten then always.
Answer in the wider stream.  Which means no as you will see.

Si