Shooting out of Woods terrain

[lionheartrjc]

Just back so it is correct out of some terrain you downgrade twice ?

No - there is no downgrade for shooting from a wood.  The only limitation is the number of ranks that can shoot.

There is a downgrade for shooting at troops in cover.  This makes two UGs shooting at each other inside a wood very ineffectual.  This might be where you were getting confused.

So, shooting from a wood into the open is in effect one downgrade.  Shooting from the open into a wood is in effect one downgrade.  Shooting from a wood at a UG in the wood is in effect two downgrades.  At that point you might as well charge...

Bear in mind also that the target must be visible (you cannot shoot at things you can't see!). 

Richard

[Francis Small]

I think what badhabum is saying is that when you shoot from a wood at a target anywhere - the target could be in the open, could be in the woods - you get two downgrades: one for shooting at reduced ranks, and one for the target claiming cover.

[marshalney2000]

Still awaiting an answer as to what constitutes a unit being out of a wood. Is it like close combat in that only the front rank needs to be.

[lionheartrjc]

I think what badhabum is saying is that when you shoot from a wood at a target anywhere - the target could be in the open, could be in the woods - you get two downgrades: one for shooting at reduced ranks, and one for the target claiming cover.

No. Only if you are shooting through the wood can the target claim cover.  If the front rank edge is not inside the wood then there is no second downgrade as you are not shooting through the wood.  This is my point, if any bit of the ranks are in the wood I would say one downgrade applies.  If the front edge is inside the wood then two downgrades will apply.  As pointed out, shooting when in woods is going to be pretty useless and if you have any sort of advantage, charging is probably your best bet.

Richard

[badhabum]

In fact the exact wording on the QRS is : orchards - for exemple - /cover/ any bases shot at when fully withi; or any target shot at FROM or through terrain .

The same terrain limits the number of ranks that may shoot

Shooting FROM is an added effect, hence the duble downgrade

So it might need attention as not all terrain hace that effect . Vineyards for exemple ldo give cover if fully in terrain and has no effect on ranks or shooting from ..so the choice of terrain will be interesting indeed an sorry if my explanations are not always to the point, you know thinking what you mean and writing it may sometimes be different .

[Francis Small]

Maybe we need a definition of "from" in the glossary.  At this point I am certain that any attempt I would make would be wrong!

[badhabum]

Coming back with shooting out of terrain:

A SUG is in a forest so shooting is innefective ( only one rank may shoot ) now what happens if the SUG has one rank oustide the forest and 2 ranks inside ?

- Is the firing innefective
_ doe sit shoot with 2 ranks one in the forest the other outide in the open ?

[nikgaukroger]

Covered in the clarries IIRC.

[steads]

Bear in mind also that the target must be visible (you cannot shoot at things you can't see!). 

Richard

I thought this as well but it was politely pointed out to me at Cross and Crescent that this is not the case: see Pg 116 9.4.A:2

[nikgaukroger]

Bear in mind also that the target must be visible (you cannot shoot at things you can't see!). 

Richard

I thought this as well but it was politely pointed out to me at Cross and Crescent that this is not the case: see Pg 116 9.4.A:2

That's just for charges isn't it and not shooting?

[steads]

Sorry misread something or conflated two conversations : Yes this only applies to charges

[badhabum]

Maybe we need a definition of "from" in the glossary.  At this point I am certain that any attempt I would make would be wrong!

Hy

I would like to come bak to part of this discussion as we had part of an answer that is in the clarries but there is still a missing point : SHOOTING "FROM" a cover

The terrain table stipulates for Orchards,woods, Forest,, Towns and Villages that a TUG inside those terrains have cover but also if as target they are shot at FROM those terrains or through. While through is pretty straightforward, the FROM is sometimes problematical .

My understanding is that if I have a firing unit in an orchard, all ranks may shoot but the "target" will be considered in cover as it is shot at from an orchard. If the firing unit is in a wood, not only will it shoot with less ranks but also give cover to the target ..

So what is it to be ( next tournament, next week-end ) 

[lionheartrjc]

Hy

I would like to come bak to part of this discussion as we had part of an answer that is in the clarries but there is still a missing point : SHOOTING "FROM" a cover

The terrain table stipulates for Orchards,woods, Forest,, Towns and Villages that a TUG inside those terrains have cover but also if as target they are shot at FROM those terrains or through. While through is pretty straightforward, the FROM is sometimes problematical .

My understanding is that if I have a firing unit in an orchard, all ranks may shoot but the "target" will be considered in cover as it is shot at from an orchard. If the firing unit is in a wood, not only will it shoot with less ranks but also give cover to the target ..

So what is it to be ( next tournament, next week-end ) 

Cover for any bases shot at when fully within.
Cover for any target shot at from the terrain. - This means the base front edge (this was clarified to be the front edge not the whole base) is at least partially in the terrain.
Cover for any target shat at through the terrain.  This means that in drawing a line from the front corners to some part of the base being targeted, it goes through the terrain.

So take two Poor, Experienced, Unprotected TuGs with Bw, 2 ranks deep shooting at each other.  In the open they both shoot at each other with YELLOW dice.
If they are both within an orchard, they will both count as in cover - shooting at each other with GREEN dice.
If they are both within woods, they both shoot at each other 1 rank deep as well as counting cover - shooting at each other with WHITE dice.

If A is within the orchard and B is in the open (within 3BW), they both count cover (A is full within, B has been shot at from the terrain) - shooting at each other with GREEN dice.
If A is within the wood and B is in the open (within 2BW), they both count cover but B can shoot with 2 ranks - A shoots with WHITE dice, B shoots with GREEN dice.

If A and B are both in the open but their shooting path is through the corner of the order - they both count cover - shooting at each other with GREEN dice.

I am unclear why any of this is problematical, but I hope my examples has resolved the problem.

Richard

[badhabum]

Thank you

It just seemed a bit strange for the shooting UG in cover to have worse colours than the target but so now I am very sure

Thank you

[Doomsmile]

I am unclear why any of this is problematical, but I hope my examples has resolved the problem.

Speaking for myself only here: I never found the rules unclear on this...but the outcomes of those rules were sufficiently counterintuitive to me that I always wondered if I was missing something.

Thank you for spelling it out so clearly— now I can stop second-guessing myself on this! : )