General giving a bonus when fighting in 2nd rank?

[Plantagenet]

My Compendium isn't here yet so not had chance to read the rules, just been playing with others who have them and using the QRS.  Just been reading through posts though and I think we're doing something wrong.  If I read it right when your general is moving with a TUG and that TUG enters combat you can decide whether the general will fight or not.  We have that part right.  We've also been giving the TUG the +1 for the general in combat.

I read though that you have to declare what rank the general is fighting in.  So, if you put the general in the second rank, does he still confer the +1 to the fighting TUG?  I'd guess not, otherwise you'd keep him out of harm's way in the second rank every time.  If he doesn't confer any bonus though, what would be the point of having him fight with the unit from the 2nd rank.

I'm sure it'll be clearer when I have the book in front of me, just want to make sure we get the general fighting right next time.

[marshalney2000]

The phrase fighting in the first Rank is really just a phrase indicating that he is fighting in the forefront of the unit. In simple terms the general is either fighting with the unit or he is not. If he fights (in the front Rank) then he gets the plus one. If not fighting then he is in the rear of the unit and no bonus is conferred. It is one or the other with no other options.
Hope this helps.

[Plantagenet]

Ah thanks.  We were doing it right then, there's not two 'fighting with unit' options that differ between front or rear rank, just that he's fighting or he's not. 

[MADdaz]

If said General is fighting in the front rank and gaining the unit a +1, he is then at risk if the unit receives two hits or more in combat.

[lionheartrjc]

If said General is fighting in the front rank and gaining the unit a +1, he is then at risk if the unit receives two hits or more in combat.

No, he has a KAB test if the front rank element of the file is removed, either due to the opponent rolling a skull against that file, an opponent rolling a wound against that file when the UG already carries a wound or (extremely rarely) if the front rank file is removed for another reason.

Richard

[steads]

I may be over-interpreting these posts but it is only the file the General is with that gets the +1 (+2 if Legendary) NOT the UG as a whole.

[lionheartrjc]

I may be over-interpreting these posts but it is only the file the General is with that gets the +1 (+2 if Legendary) NOT the UG as a whole.

Indeed.

Richard

[badhabum]

The file or the front base of the file ( just in case the file is also fighting a flank charge )

[Cyclone Ranger]

so if the general is behind the unit, no plus on dice roll. if he is in the front of the unit the whole unit gets a plus 1? or just  stand he is in front of?

[Francis Small]

It is just the file that the general is with, so never the entire UG, just the file - which may not be what you think it is. (At least it wasnt' for me.)

Take the case of a file of 2 units with the front unit fighting frontally and the rear unit is fighting a rear charge, so 2 combats for the 1 "file". (Sucks to be you.) The general (wishing to go down in glory?) has been designated to be fighting in the front rank.

So... do both combats benefit from the general?

The QRS states a "General fighting in file" gets a claim, but then you have to look up the definition of a file in the glossary, which basically says that they all have to be contiguous and face the same way to be a file. If the rear base is facing to the rear it is not in the same file as the front base (which is facing in a different direction) and so doesn't get the general's bonus.

If instead both bases were facing the same direction (say to the front), they would be fighting two combats but only rolling the dice once. Still, the general's bonus might affect the color (sorry - colour) of the dice the enemy uses for the rear attack. Since both bases are now in the same file the QRS as written says that the general's bonus applies to both combats.

Another case would be a pike column of 4 bases, the 1st 2 fighting a frontal combat and the last two fighting a flank attack but still facing the same direction as the first two bases. (Similar to the diagram on p142.) If a general is fighting with the file it seems he would provide a bonus to both attacks since, according to the glossary definition of a file, all 4 bases are in the same file.

See, it's perfectly logical. (Now I'm just waiting for someone to tell me it's perfectly wrong.  )

[badhabum]

Part of the answer lies pg 215 definition of file . A file has all bases facing the same direction ...so if attacked in the rear and having turned it is not the same file ..but nothing is said if you have a corridor 4 bases deep, the general is in the file and the front rank and 4th base are engaged frontally ...

[badhabum]

No answer ?

[Simon Meg-Meister]

It is just the file that the general is with, so never the entire UG, just the file - which may not be what you think it is. (At least it wasnt' for me.)

Take the case of a file of 2 units with the front unit fighting frontally and the rear unit is fighting a rear charge, so 2 combats for the 1 "file". (Sucks to be you.) The general (wishing to go down in glory?) has been designated to be fighting in the front rank.

So... do both combats benefit from the general?

The QRS states a "General fighting in file" gets a claim, but then you have to look up the definition of a file in the glossary, which basically says that they all have to be contiguous and face the same way to be a file. If the rear base is facing to the rear it is not in the same file as the front base (which is facing in a different direction) and so doesn't get the general's bonus.

If instead both bases were facing the same direction (say to the front), they would be fighting two combats but only rolling the dice once. Still, the general's bonus might affect the color (sorry - colour) of the dice the enemy uses for the rear attack. Since both bases are now in the same file the QRS as written says that the general's bonus applies to both combats.

Another case would be a pike column of 4 bases, the 1st 2 fighting a frontal combat and the last two fighting a flank attack but still facing the same direction as the first two bases. (Similar to the diagram on p142.) If a general is fighting with the file it seems he would provide a bonus to both attacks since, according to the glossary definition of a file, all 4 bases are in the same file.

See, it's perfectly logical. (Now I'm just waiting for someone to tell me it's perfectly wrong.  )

This is the reason for the diagram on page 135. Once you turn you create a new file.  The general must therefore choose which file they are now fighting with.  Hence in glossary .... note facing in the same direction...  so your pikes have many file within the corridor one it gets confused and facing in multiple direcitions.

File
A base facing to its front and all bases in the BW corridor behind them that are facing in the same direction and in contiguous contact as a column of bases. A single corridor may have files facing to front flank and rear (4 in principle - although hard to achieve).

[badhabum]

Yes but you may have the following case : A tug 4 rank deep .

The TUG is charged to the front but slightly from a side and so the ennemy does contact the front base of the file and the 3rd base of the file . It is the same corridor and the general fights to the front ...but there are 2 fight one for the front base and one for the 3rd base .

A single corridor, a single file but 2 fights : does the general gives his bonus to the whole file and so 2 fights ..

[Simon Meg-Meister]

But only 1 file unless the troops are turned.  He has no choice but to fight frontally.
There are only more than 1 file in a corridor once something trust to flank or rear.

Si